renegade master Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 update on progress, I have taken the gas gas engine out and started to strip it down, I got held up due to waiting for a flywheel puller to come, my plan is to inspect the gears just incase theres any damage on that side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandyb Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 If you are about to strip it completely be sure to replace the "half moon" bearings while in there. I havent donethis myself when stripping my engines, but after helping two of my friends clean up their gearboxes after this bearings have broke I svear I will never leave those unchanged again ever. -Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade master Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Im afraid theres definitely 2 needle roller bearings side by side that the clutch slides on over the crank. I remember it being a bit awkward to get tge clutch over both. I got two new needle roller bearings but theres no possible way to get the clutch over them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Are you sure that the old bearing races are not still in there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade master Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 No they just dont fit, I think it can still work with out them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 No they just dont fit, I think it can still work with out them? No, it can't. It looks like the needle support collar may still be in the hub, but can't see clearly. If you would, remove the clutch pack from the hub/basket and take a photo of the inside of the hub bore. Trust me, those bearings are made to fit inside the basket hub and you will ruin that engine if you do not install them. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade master Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 No, it can't. It looks like the needle support collar may still be in the hub, but can't see clearly. If you would, remove the clutch pack from the hub/basket and take a photo of the inside of the hub bore. Trust me, those bearings are made to fit inside the basket hub and you will ruin that engine if you do not install them. Jon Ok I will remove and take a photo of the hub bore, There is something in there alright but I dont think its a needle support collar because it pure round and smooth where as if it was the support collar would it not have groves in it for the needles? and lets just say if this was removed it seems like theres only room for just one bearing to if in there... also how do I remove this collar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrc1 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Didn't the early Pro 02/03 have a bush in the clutch basket? Could it still be there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade master Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Didn't the early Pro 02/03 have a bush in the clutch basket? Could it still be there? I think you have hit the nail on the head, its hub bush alright, as I had a better look at it today...... So big question now is " does that mean I dont need the two bearings?" I take it that the hub bush does the same thing as the needle roller baerings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Didn't the early Pro 02/03 have a bush in the clutch basket? Could it still be there? I think you're right. For some reason I kept thinking about all the later hubs. Haven't worked on the early ones for some time ( and I'm old and feeble....). I think the inner hub should just push out from the basket and I'd take that stepped washer from the center hub out just to keep track of it. I looked up the part numbers for the basket and the primary shaft (essentially the inner and outer "races" for the needles) for the 2003 (bushing) and 2005 (needles) and they are both the same, so I'm assuming that the needle bearings are a direct replacement for the bushing. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) Oh boy. Then the needle bearings could be deeper. My buddies 2006 300 had the bearings for the hub shaft go bad. Here is a video of what we found. Looks like your heading into the gear box anyways but if you have not yet look at the shaft that the basket rides on. Still a mystery as to how the basket seems to have contacted the case if it is held true. Brads my parts guy in case you were wondering. --Biff Edited December 10, 2013 by biffsgasgas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade master Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 oh dam!, see my original plan was to open up and inspect the gears, but when I ordered my parts and stuff the gasket that I got looks too thin so I didnt split the engine in half because it takes weeks for parts to get shipped here to Ireland and given this time of year (xmas) it would be cutting it a bit fine if I have to order another gasket! ,,,, So now the engine is all back togeather and back in the bike and the gears seem to be working up/down, all thats left to do now is figure out whats the story with this hub bush vs clutch basket bearings..... my question now is ( do I leave the hub bush in? or do I take it out and put in the needle bearings?) Will it work with the hub bush thats already there?........ as I would like to fire the bike up again...... and maybe worry about where the loose roller bearing came from again!...... I will soon know if I have to inspect the gears after I start the bike up and run it!........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade master Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Here is a quick video of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renegade master Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Ok bike is all put back together again, took about 5 or 6 kicks to fire up and when it did it ticked over nicely, but I nocted that theres water comming from the head gasket at the top of the barrel I should have used some instant gasket to seal it (because theres a aluminium head spacer on it) and steel on steel dont make a good seal! I hope to hell the lower head gasket doesnt leak too....... I also have to bleed the clutch.... (any good advice on that guys?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 No its ok you have our support here. For future knowledge (hind sight is 20/20 right!) I never pull the head unless i decarbon it or add something. If you were adding the spacer then no biggie. As far as the head goes those o rings tend to pop out of place. Use a good grease or a touch of silicone to hold them in place would be a good idea when you go back in there. As far as the clutch goes what I have done is push fluid up from the bleeder at the clutch line to clutch cover banjo bolt (if you still have one). If you don't have a bleeder you will need to open and close that banjo bolt a few times to push the air down through the line. To push oil up use a clean new oil can pump or syringe or turkey baster. Make sure its clean and connect a line to the bleeder and one to the oil can, syringe or turkey baster. Open the bleeder and push the fluid up through the clutch master. Make sure that the cap of the master is removed and take your time. The air pushes up easier than pushes down to the clutch... which is why I push backwards. I would say leave the bushing for now but ask yourself and inspect why did the clutch basket seem to contact the inside of the case? If you hear noises i would say stop and go deeper because more than likely you have the basket still contacting the case. Those loose bearing needles are probably the reason and it appears you have ruled out everything on the outside of the cases. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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