baldilocks Posted January 20, 2014 Report Share Posted January 20, 2014 Also have a look at the montesa forum for reference to 4rt frames breaking at the footrest mount. I know of 3 cases of this. Or Beta evo frames 2009. Or Sherco frames. Dadof2 i agree bikes need to improve but the way the fim have approached this wont work. And I am rather tired of you continually slating gas gas. Gas Gas are no worse than any other brand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Have a look at #67 by factory on the Montesa forum, New RT 260, whos got one topic. Poor bloke had his lightly built gasser fall to pieces then when he bought his already expensive but heavy and reliable 4RT he had to spend a shedload more to lighten it! If there had been a sensible 75 + kG minimum weight years ago manufacturers would not have needed to go down the too light / road to nowhere route. The gasser probably would not have fallen to pieces and he would not have had to spend money lightening the Montesa. Perhaps I have a different view to those in some parts of UK, but here in the North Pennines sections are mostly rocks and bikes need to be tougher. Same old song - but now the gas gas beta and sherco are too light but the 4rt too heavy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 A discussion on riders weight would be more relevant. As I've said before the average rider up here is about 2 stone overweight . What a shallow lot we are,most club trials could be won on a Rudge by a decent rider. We just kid ourselves that the bike makes a difference. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 ..or more relevant here a minimum weight combining rider and bike, so bigger riders aren't at such a disadvantage? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I weigh more than 14 stone and a buddy of mine even more than that and our footpeg hangers are fine. Both 4RT's are over 5 years old and my bashplate is still the original one. But maybe we're just lucky or your evidence is anecdotal What are you? Flag dancers? Original 4rt bash plates are *****, so are the footrest hangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 What are you? Flag dancers? Original 4rt bash plates are *****, so are the footrest hangers. Easy boy, there's no need to start swearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 is this you perce ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think theres a 4rt in their too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) ..or more relevant here a minimum weight combining rider and bike, so bigger riders aren't at such a disadvantage? Now dabster that's the best idea I've seen yet. Excellent suggestion. Edited January 22, 2014 by old trials fanatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 ..or more relevant here a minimum weight combining rider and bike, so bigger riders aren't at such a disadvantage? Or more fairly and even more unlikely, directly relate the bike weight to a ratio of rider weight so as not to reward fat buggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 #151 I am not deliberately singling out and slating gassers, its just in this area they do seem to have had more than their fair share of problems. Gearbox excepted gassers are probably about on a par with the other makes but unfortunately the recurrent gearbox problems makes them stand out as unreliable. If someone had asked which was the most unreliable bike several years ago it would have been a toss up between gassers and beta because beta were notorious for ignition failure. I know of one mature careful rider who had 2 gassers over about 3 years and during that time he needed 3 gearbox rebuilds and a new ignition system - total cost about £1800. The unfortunate fact is all trials bikes break more than they should because manufacturers have pursued competitiveness and "hopability" at world level rather than producing reliable but heavier clubman bikes. The FIM have made a good start in reversing this trend by setting a 70 kg limit but ideally it needs to be higher, at least 75 and possibly 80 to 85 kg. Getting a bit off topic with the following but take EFI systems, they have many advantages over carbs but if all manufacturers go down their own route it could be storing up problems and expensive out of warranty repairs. Far better if they were standardized and OBD compatable or could be interrogated by standard laptop software. If a standard ECU is appropriate for F1 why does trials need more than that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 #239969 Right this is the last time I try and get you to see sense! The FIM have done f all. FIM minimum weights will not make any difference to reliability if riders put blocks of lead on the bashplate, and in WTC competition if they don't weigh bikes AT RANDOM. Unless all manufacturers agree to increase their weights simultaneously it would never work, and even then the reliability may not even improve if for example, they make steel bashplates. At a stroke you would wish weighing scales at club trials and make thousands of bikes obsolete overnight, if and a really big IF the acu (our federation our rules) were to follow suit. It ant going to happen, never. Anecdotal evidence of "your mates gasser" is not a generally accepted fact, ive had 5 gassers never had a gearbox problem my mate has had two and he wrecks bikes, no problems, and back in the day 06 (when problems were more common) I have witnessed close up a certain rider complete (and win) a 12 round world championship without any problems with the box at all. John Shirt is pretty fair on warranties and if your mate has had 3 boxes go without reason I'm sure junior would have dealt with this. In short, the majority don't want heavier bikes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The fight over what a trials bike should weight has been already fought. The market decided long ago. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr neutron Posted January 25, 2014 Report Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) I'm confused & wondering who some of you folks ride with..... I cannot recall anyone, ever, come riding up to myself or anyone else, and saying "Gee.... I wish I had a heavier bike!" Nor can I recall anyone else using their light bike as an excuse for five-ing a section, or for dropping a position at an event.... I ride at a very low skill level, but can't see how a heavier bike would make that any better, for myself, or those competing at much higher levels. If this isn't an attempt to allow Honda/Montesa what they feel is a more "level playing field", I'd be surprised. If it's an attempt by the FIM to help, or somehow "revive the sport", I seriously doubt that it will work. Meddling by the FIM to save the sport, or even the idea that manufacturers want the FIM to help increase sales, cracks me up. It seems somewhat akin to Chevy & Ford asking NASCAR to help slumping new car sales....... The manufacturers, driven by the buyers & riders (the market), need to be able to do their own marketing. Not the FIM. As Laser1 stated above: "The market decided long ago" that it wanted lighter bikes.... Jimmie Edited January 25, 2014 by mr neutron 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinshocked Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I'm confused & wondering who some of you folks ride with..... Jimmie The guys I ride with want to RIDE and don't want to turn Trials into politics. Edited January 26, 2014 by twinshocked 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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