nigel dabster Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 It hasn't been in our hands for a while I must agree, fortunately we do have the ACU which is democratically ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Espargaro goes within a half second of Marquez on the "open" bike. Oh look who starts complaining about rules again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 Was it ever in our hands ? Not that I know of ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa325 Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 I maybe incorrect here, but as far as I am aware there is no 'Professional Trials Riders Association' available for those thirty or so riders who compete in the various classes that make up the World Championship. Every other sport I can think of has such a group/association that acts like a union and negotiates with the relevant governing body for the rights of its members and the sport itself. Golf, Formula 1, Moto GP, Tennis etc all have such an association. If the World Championship riders had been in negotiation with the FIM it would appear that these rules would not have been implemented or maybe some reason behind them may have been forthcoming. I personally don't believe any of these rule changes will increase participation in the World Championship or increase world sales of trials bikes. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 This decision can best be described as moronic, and follows closely on the heals of the non-stop rule introduced last year. There is nothing balsy about making stupid decisions, and this is the second stupid decision that the FIM has made in two years. The Australian riders currently preparing for the first world round are taking their standard bikes and bolting lead on to meet the changed requirements so they can enter the round. I know of top riders here who are simply not going to enter. With the non-stop nonsense and now this, why would they bother? Make no mistake, this is about Honda's inability to build a light production bike, so they are having the rules changed in a vain effort to fix their problem. The simple reason why it will not work, is that factories will still use carbon fiber everything, but with lead added in the footpeg area. I hear depleted uranium footpegs are also good, or maybe gold filled lower frame rails? The advantage will still remain with the most technologically advanced machine and the team with the most money. 'Average Joe' will still buy the lightest production bike he can because they are simply more enjoyable to ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa325 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I was originally fairly skeptical that these rules may have been to benefit Honda, but after what has just happened in Moto GP I guess I underestimated the clout HRC really has! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 I used to love Honda, but they have become increasingly narrow minded in a changing world. They have made a decision to stick with 4 strokes, and they will 'go down with the ship if necessary'. You can't help asking the obvious question though, when there are a couple of sprockets, a cam chain, an an oil pump and few other parts that add up to two kg at the most, why is their motor so heavy compared to a Euro, (well designed), 2 stroke trials engine? Four strokes have pretty much killed MX globally, yet Honda still exerts as much financial pressure as possible to stop a return of two strokes. The huge increase in perceptible noise from 4 strokes has caused land closures in every country, and 250cc 4 stroke MX bike costs roughly twice as much to run as a 2 stroke these days. If you look at the World MX championships, Honda sponsors an entire 150cc 4 stroke division now to try and kids to ride 4 strokes, yet their 150cc bike have pretty much disappeared from local MX tracks around the world and been replaced by two strokes. The only saving grace is that there is a 2 stroke class back in the world series again this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) I was originally fairly skeptical that these rules may have been to benefit Honda, but after what has just happened in Moto GP I guess I underestimated the clout HRC really has!Before you join the "I hate the evil Honda" brigade, you might want to read this.http://m.motomatters.com/opinion/2014/03/10/the_factory_2_farce_how_poor_communicati.html Edited March 17, 2014 by jj65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa325 Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) No I am not bashing Honda but it is very difficult to believe that they have not been the major force behind the addition of the third class On February 28th Ducati confirm they will switch to the Open Class Philip Island testing is from March 3rd through to March 5th - Ducatis finish Day 1 in 2nd, Day 2 in 3rd, Day 3 in 4th. Midway through testing on March 4th Honda are unhappy http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112760 Rules are changed on March 6th http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112791 Edited March 17, 2014 by sherpa325 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted March 17, 2014 Report Share Posted March 17, 2014 And what about the link between Ducati and Magneti Marelli, and the fact that the Open Class was not intended for a factory team like Ducati? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr neutron Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Ya know, here in the States, I seem to recall weight minimums being put on mx bikes, when, around 1975 or so? This was in response to how the light & expensive factory bikes were dominating mx back then. It was meant to make it easier for privateers to compete, and a "claiming Rule" was even introduced to supposedly aid the non-factory riders...... So, the AMA made a weight minimum. People would still pay whatever price they needed to back then for YZs & other light bikes, the sport was enjoying enourmous growth, but the AMA still stepped in with a weigh minimum. The factories simply then switched their development dollars into suspension, water cooling, engine improvemnts, and other areas. And the bikes didn't get one single nickel cheaper. Racing didn't get cheaper. This is essentially "Deja Vu" all over again...... It won't make Trials bikes any cheaper, or more competitive for most riders. It won't grow the sport. Develoment on lightness might stop, but the factories will simply turn their development money (what little there is....) towards some other area to gain an edge on the other brands. Electronic traction control, suspendion, and/or other gimmicks, that will no doubt increase the cost of bikes, and drive down sales & participation. Jimmie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramit Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 No I am not bashing Honda but it is very difficult to believe that they have not been the major force behind the addition of the third class On February 28th Ducati confirm they will switch to the Open Class Philip Island testing is from March 3rd through to March 5th - Ducatis finish Day 1 in 2nd, Day 2 in 3rd, Day 3 in 4th. Midway through testing on March 4th Honda are unhappy http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112760 Rules are changed on March 6th http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112791 Seems like the no stop rule is a drop in the bucket compared to what these folks are dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 There already was a minimum weight limit, and almost every production trials bike manufactured is very close to it. So who doesn't have a bike close to the limit, let me think?????? Not one single person is arguing that the weight limit should be reduced, but it has been increased for goodness sake! Go on FIM, explain how this makes sense to the overall trials community, and how it is going to increase bike sales, either short or long term? I believe the FIM is becoming increasingly irrelevant, and so is the World Trials Championship. The majority of the worlds Trials riders will ignore the FIM, ride the lightest bikes they can because they are more fun, stop when it feels right and the sport will suffer an accelerated drop in numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cactusjack Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I think a lot of people are missing the point a little. The FIM couldn't give a rats about selling trials bikes, or how many people take up the sport. The only thing that matters to FIM is that people are watching and they are getting advertising dollars. I am sure in some championships they are losing money but making it up in the others. To make the sport a bigger spectacle they want to bring the competition closer together. To keep manufacturers competing, they need to make it cheaper. I can understand how no-stop MAY bring the competition closer together, but I do think Bou will just adapt and continue to dominate. We will see if it works or not I guess. I don't like no-stop, and don't agree with it. I think the spectacle is in what these guys can do with their balance. Pushing the limits, bouncing on the back wheel, jumping sideways from obstacle to obstacle. Unbelievable.... As for weight limits, again I can't understand how it benefits. OK, maybe it could make bike development cheaper, but as others say I do believe it will force manufacturers to develop more expensive components. I think it only really advantages Honda, which is counteractive if they are trying to bring competition closer together. Just my thoughts on the matter. Interesting times ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin belair Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I think a lot of people are missing the point a little. The FIM couldn't give a rats about selling trials bikes, or how many people take up the sport. The exact opposite of the truth. Agree or not with the rule changes, that is your opinion, but to say they don't care about the sport is wrong. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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