dadof2 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 What is there for me to apologise for, it was you who misquoted what I wrote. There is a significant difference between what I wrote (and you have now acknowledged) and what you misquoted me as writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 bullshiit whats the difference? most =most limits of lightness = as light as can get pretty well = as can get Please apologise now its been explained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Regardless of your semantics, most trials bikes are not near the limit of lightness, or as pretty well as light as can get, so you're wrong twice over both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) There are/were 4 Sherco's in our club and all had cracked frames. Don't know if it's because of too light materials or poor build quality. I don't care if you call it anecdotal or not, it just shouldn't happen. Edited May 20, 2015 by guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazybond700 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Guys please act normal, dont ruin a conversation like this. (otherwise nobody want to support this forum anymore, and it goes banktrupt, lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I agree we shouldn't get to far of topic or loose ourself in a rant but that doesn't mean we can't share our opinions. Forum: An Internet site where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings; a message board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_earle Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 This topic is getting heated!!!!! LOL The idea of producing an engine that could be used in mx, trials, enduro. Scorpa tried that with the 250 4T yamaha engine from the mx range, What a disaster that was. Beta just take 1st gear out of their full factory bikes to make the engine lighter, Still a reliable unit from the techno days, No need to re develop. But I think the weight thing is a dig at GG as usual. As been said before, Cheaper, Heavier more reliable bikes don't sell. Some on here are like trying to argue with the wife when she's been on the wine, She's always right and will argue black is white till she passes out!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Its a shame that your language education doesnt stretch answering a question, or as crazy says debating points. The fundamental point that whatever smoke screen/off topic answers in 3 or so posts you have put up, trials bikes are not a) too light and definately no where near as light as they could be. I agree that the technology exists to make trials bikes could be quite a bit lighter, but in shedding weight costs would increase and / or they would become more fragile. It is your opinion that trials bikes are not too light, it is my opinion that they are now so light it has compromised reliability and increased costs to the point sales have fallen. Terry Michaud thinks a certain minimum weight limit is appropriate, others disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 This topic is getting heated!!!!! LOL The idea of producing an engine that could be used in mx, trials, enduro. Unfortunately we are probably past the point in time where this could be done. For many decades it has been the case that an identical engine could not be used for all three. However remember both GG and Husqvarna have put a 4T top end on a 2T gearbox. The less specialised an engine (or some parts of it) has to be the more opportunity there is for a manufacturer to spread costs over a wider range of products. An example is Hondas small engine EFI system. It is not just used on trials and other motorcycles it is used on agricultural machinery and outboards. Scorpa tried that with the 250 4T yamaha engine from the mx range, What a disaster that was. Had minimum weight limits been higher there may not have been such a differential between this and purpose built trials engine. Beta just take 1st gear out of their full factory bikes to make the engine lighter, Still a reliable unit from the techno days, No need to re develop. In order to reduce weight Beta used magnesium primary cases - this has resulted in water pump corrosion Beta crank cases are so thin underneath the rubber sump guard pad can bend the ignition flywheel case up, letting water and much into the flywheel. Beta use M6 fasteners on the fork yolks (presumably to reduce weight) quite a few of these fasteners strip or break. But I think the weight thing is a dig at GG as usual. Regarding GG, I comment as I find, I have nothing against them and am sorry to see the present situation. I have criticised Beta as above and in other posts. Then there is Guys comment on Sherco frames. EG the Sherco gear change centering spring. These can and do break, they are only half the wire diameter and are much lighter that the equivalent spring in 1970s Bultacos. As been said before, Cheaper, Heavier more reliable bikes don't sell. The reason they don't sell (Mont / Honda excepted) is because people perceive them as inferior and they are less competitive than a light bike. If there was a minimum weight limit set at a reasonable level this would not be an issue. Some on here are like trying to argue with the wife when she's been on the wine, She's always right and will argue black is white till she passes out!!!! Perhaps the reason this goes on and on is because much of it is a matter of opinion and different riders have different preferences. There is at least one fact however and that is that the development of present bikes no matter how good, bad, light or heavy has been accompanied by a decline in the sport. and bike sales. I can remember karting. A lot of the kit was very tightly cost controlled and pretty crude but 4 grids of 25 karts or more were common. Pressure grew from some quarters to reduce restrictions arguing it would improve the sport. The restrictions were relaxed, costs shot up and numbers participating collapsed often to less than one full grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Daddy having met thierry michaud and been up close against him in a competitive sense i can assure you his vision of trials is not one which sits comfortably in a british situation, proving once again you dont know what youre on about. We have discussed wny minimum weights dont work, would never work, and are totally unenforceable!!!!!! I have illustrated as such, but you wait a month or so then forget the reasoned arguments and spout your sh!te again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yet another topic full of drivel. This stops right now. I have far too much going on at the mo to read every single post and it's going to be easier to hit the ban button on the constant offenders than read every damned post. Keep it ON TOPIC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Public sorry, he's got my goat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Why not settle it like men !! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xY_Kb5Qkj-4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) I've always known you brits are a peculiar folk, but I didn't know you settled your disputes in that manner. Is that scene from brokeback countryside? Edited May 21, 2015 by guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Now then B40rt, no inappropriate content please Nigel, I am sorry if my cat sat on the mat post pushed you a bit far. Sometimes I have had a hard day and making a post like I did felt pretty innocuous. Yesterday I arrived home (about 19:30) to find a pretty irate and upset person at the top of my drive talking to my wife, who also looked far from happy. At first I thought the driver hand knocked her off her bike. In fact it was a serious issue involving property damage (maybe £30k), impending litigation, fraud, misrepresentation and theft and at least 2 breaches of the housing act. Although we have no involvement in the wrongdoing the outcome could have an adverse effect on 20 % of our business. Apart from my time on TC I spent the rest of the evening reading law. First thing this morning, one of the involved parties in a very bad and upset mood on the phone for a legal conversation having to watch every word. Spend next 3 hour writing legally correct letter to one of the accused parties. Afternoon spend more time on phone with defendant / counter claimant then visit alleged perpetrator of the damage who has also issued county court proceedings against 2 others involved, managed to get copy of an alleged forged document without him realising it would probably be used in evidence against him. Get home have tea them more legal work and phone calls including how to bring copy of the alleged forgery to the attention of someone who needs to see it without breaking the law, prejudicing the legal proceedings or upsetting someone who may turn out to be innocent. Just finished that then opened TC to post this. Apologies for being off thread but sometimes an explanation may explain questionable posting. Back to the original topic. In support of my argument that a higher minimum weight limit would increase parts interchangeability with other disciplines (and the benefits that brings) take a look at the recent Gaunt Suzuki post. I have ridden a standard B120, but never a trials variant. Transforming that engine with its near total lack of bottom end power is quite an achievement. Edited May 21, 2015 by dadof2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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