Fim Minimum Bike Weight Increase 2014? What?

[twinshocked]

Ahhhhh. The sweet stench of a lynch mob. Amazing that ignorance and hate always come together. Let's keep the rope handy just in case Yamaha or KTM decide to build a trials bike.

[ianw]

MMMMmmm, sounds like you must be out of logical arguments to resort to name calling? Maybe we are Communists too?

The only small part of your comment worth acknowledging is the part about KTM. KTM are probably the best small volume dirt bike development company in the world, and would do a sterling job of developing and building a trials bike. The only real problem with that, however, is that the small trials market already has too many brands.

All anyone is saying here is why change the rules just for Honda, because that is clearly what has been done?

[jj65]

All anyone is saying here is why change the rules just for Honda, because that is clearly what has been done?

If the rules had been changed for Honda, then surely the minimum weight would be 76.5 kg. I do agree that the bikes should be production based with slight tuning etc allowed, whereas the indoor WTC could be less restrictive. It's a shame ktm don't make a trials bike, it would no doubt be very good (don't they build the engines for Beta 4t ?).

[ianw]

I think it would simply have been a mass revolt if they had gone to 76.5kg, so they stopped well short. When most brands had production bikes close to the old limit already, why would those brands have been in favour of the big weight increase that was implemented? The scuttlebutt that I heard from the Australian world round was that the factory guys were outraged at having to get production bikes out of crates and then add lead weights to them so they could be used. I know for sure that the riders hated it. Isn't it hard to believe that the key brands, GasGas, Sherco, and Beta would have been pushing for this increase? This year, it costs more money to buy a production GasGas and carry out the necessary additions ready for a WTC round than last year. Production bikes will not increase in weight, because that is not what the customers want. Luckily, it appears that most countries are choosing to ignore the FIM on both the weight and non-stop changes.

[nigel dabster]

..and the only time the weight was checked was technical control the day before the event?

Call me an old sceptic but whats the incentive for anyone to actually compete on a bike that weighs the correct amount?

Hopefully the ACU will grab the bull by the horns and check the weight of the bikes out on the course. fat chance.

[neils on wheels]

All anyone is saying here is why change the rules just for Honda, because that is clearly what has been done?

Will someone please provide the evidence that the rules were changed just for Honda, or give up with the idle speculation.

[dadof2]

Dabster - you said my post was rubbish, exactly why?

There is far to much SPECULATION about Bou's bike and an extreme scarcity of fact.
At Nord View last year I was able to have a good close look at the bike both stationary and whilst he was practicing. Sure there were a few things different to standard, but there was nothing obviously more non standard than some tricked up club riders bike.

It may have a few mm on the bore or stroke, perhaps a bit of porting and even a mm or 2 on the valve diameters, but that's hardly major tuning or cost. There are also RUMOURS that it only has 3 or 4 gears to save weight, but there again, taking a few cogs out is hardly going to bust the bank.

I suspect it had some form of traction control as it at times had a sort of misfire that did not appear to concern Bou or his minders. The UK importer of another major brand of trials bike also suspected it had traction control.

Back to the weight limit issue. I just happened to read a copy of Maritime Engineering Review today, and guess what, ships are becoming too lightly built and fragile to the extent there are now safety concerns. Apparently a container ship with a design life expectancy of 25 years has fallen in half after only five years service, rather reminds you of the perils of Gasgas ownership.

[nigel dabster]

Dabster - you said my post was rubbish, exactly why?

There is far to much SPECULATION about Bou's bike and an extreme scarcity of fact.

At Nord View last year I was able to have a good close look at the bike both stationary and whilst he was practicing. Sure there were a few things different to standard, but there was nothing obviously more non standard than some tricked up club riders bike.

It may have a few mm on the bore or stroke, perhaps a bit of porting and even a mm or 2 on the valve diameters, but that's hardly major tuning or cost. There are also RUMOURS that it only has 3 or 4 gears to save weight, but there again, taking a few cogs out is hardly going to bust the bank.

I suspect it had some form of traction control as it at times had a sort of misfire that did not appear to concern Bou or his minders. The UK importer of another major brand of trials bike also suspected it had traction control.

Back to the weight limit issue. I just happened to read a copy of Maritime Engineering Review today, and guess what, ships are becoming too lightly built and fragile to the extent there are now safety concerns. Apparently a container ship with a design life expectancy of 25 years has fallen in half after only five years service, rather reminds you of the perils of Gasgas ownership.

Its rubbish because its not true that bous bike isnt special.

I cant remember the exact weight but it was close to ragas in France wtc when I was stood next to scales in 2011.

The fact that gears are taken out traction control 3 switch map settings different height cylinder different crankcases different frame special tyres ti spindles(illegal) twin spark lightweight shock etc are all visible perhaps is a clear indication to fair minded people that to say his bike is standard is RUBBISH! Clear enough?

Yes container ships and trials bikes there so close in design and manufacture and use arent they. Rubbish again.

[eddie_lejeune]

Yes container ships and trials bikes there so close in design and manufacture and use arent they. Rubbish again.

riding a 4rt is pretty close to a container ship, the ship would turn easier id say

[dadof2]

Once again Dabster you are not reading exactly what I have said and misquoting me. I never said Bou's bike was not special, it obviously is. What I do believe is that its not that much different and that some of the tuning and parts cost rumours that are bandied about are ridiculous.

What trial bikes and container ships have in common is that they are both suffering unnecessary failures due to being built too light.

[ianw]

Come on!! Surely no one thinks that the FIM increased the WTC weight limit to improve the reliability of production bikes? I can't imagine what their motive would be for doing that.

There are reliability issues with some bikes, and those manufacturers know who they are and should be ashamed. It is very disappointing for all of us when companies can't be bothered fixing problems from year to year, but it is an attitude and market size problem, not a weight problem.

[ironbelly]

Well it's easy to continue with Michaud, no stop like the old days, we can all wear belstaff and a flat cap, make bikes 2 tons, and then it will bring the crowds like the old days NOT, the old days have gone, it's a Changing world, so going back to how it was is the wrong direction, let the top riders decide where the sport is going, as they are the now of trials, it's becoming a joke, even if they are doing right for the sport I don't think it will come out the other side of this complete balls-up, other sports would laugh their faces off how it's run, it's still as bad as a load of old men in a motorcycle club making wrong decisions!

[dadof2]

Its not just trials that are strangely or unpopularly handed down a set of rules from above. Take formula 1 for example.

If someone balls it up in qualifying either intentionally or not they can gain an advantage because it prevents their competitors setting a better time - Absurd

Then someone works hard to build up a good lead in a race only to have it taken away by a "safety car period"

Despite billions being spent on improvement the cars are no faster than they were 10 years ago.

On a brighter note what Michaude and the whole WTC circus do, does not matter in the slightest. At all the trials I have attended this year the subject has not even been mentioned. The topics that come up are entry fees, land availability, observer availability, spares prices, the fragility of modern bikes and lack of consistency of clubman class section severity.

[nigel dabster]

Dad dad dad!

Yes that ever popular topic " hello fred did you know I have a fragile bike wouldnt it be great to go back to the B40 days with great big heavy lumps"

Oh and just to put you straight (again) in 2004 the engine size was 3000cc an engine only had to last one weekend no restrictions on cylinder number,etc etc I could go on, but to say they dont go faster is ridiculous as they are now using 1600cc with V6's.

Edited May 29, 2014 by nigel dabster

[dadof2]

Nigel - the F1 cars are not as fast as they were

EG. This years monaco fastest lap was 4 seconds slower than Schumakers 1994 record.

Bike fragility - no one mentioned weight or wanting to ride a B40, but there were numerous moans about lack of reliability. Here is a sample of items. Sherco rider, bike about 3 month old, brake and clutch hydraulic problems, Gasgas riders dad, has had to rebuild his sons gearbox twice this year after minor gear lever impacts on rocks. Beta rider, misfire and lack of power (probable coil failure). Another Beta rider, exhaust leaking at barrel after lightly catching exhaust on rock.

There was a general consensus that the TY250 monos were best, this comes up time and time again,

I note that one of the aims of Jts JTS is longevity, lets hope they achieve it and the other manufacturers follow suit.

Edited May 29, 2014 by dadof2