Ttrg/sacu

[2stroke4stroke]

I have no connection to TTRG and would not presume to try to sway anyone's opinion on recently highlighted matters via this forum but understand that the SACU sent proposals to their clubs neary a fortnight ago.

The gist of the proposals seems to do away with the current postcode lottery regarding licence costs. Does anyone know if SACU clubs have actually passed this info on to their members as the SACU seems to be desirous of getting opinion from as wide an audience as possible?

[b40rt]

Dear Scottish Trials Enthusiast,

We enclose communication below and in pdf format attached; agreed between the Scottish ACU and TTRG.

Please feel free to forward/pass on this e-mail and it's attachment to anyone you consider that would like to have a copy.

TTRG Moderator

(On behalf of The Trials Reform Group)

19:00 - 25 November 2013

TTRG – Meeting with Scottish ACU (SACU) – Friday 22 November 2013

&

Scottish ACU Trials Proposals 2014

1.

TTRG/SACU Meeting:

Alastair McNaughton and John Moffat, two of the five members making up The Trials Reform Group, met with Scottish ACU Chairman, Paul Carlyle and SACU Vice-President, Ian Barnes at Perth on Friday, 22 November 2013.

Here are the main points:

· The meeting was amicable and was sufficiently frank, open and discursive in nature.

· Both parties were keen to learn more from each another and this was achieved.

· The SACU representatives acknowledged the TTRG report, they understood why the report was produced and that it was a ‘snap-shot’ of where the SACU had been over the past few years in relation to trial sport in Scotland. They also had realised that it was not a specific criticism of the SACU in isolation, but an objective assessment of how SACU interfaced with Scottish Trials as well as other organisations.

· The SACU had, unbeknown to members of TTRG, recently discussed and reviewed proposals to amend the trials licence and insurance charging system. They had released their proposal to affiliated clubs the same day as the TTRG released their report findings (13 November 2013), which was purely co-incidental.

· The TTRG representatives were informed about some of the future plans and aspirations of the SACU as a governing body, which was encouraging. Much work has been going on behind the scenes, over the past 12 months.

· It was agreed that TTRG would release additional information from the SACU on their behalf via their temporary e-mail list. The SACU had communicated this to their affiliated clubs, but it was felt that it would be helpful to widen the distribution of their proposals by this communication from TTRG.

· The SACU work within the constraints of their constitution as a governing body and the fact that their rider database is not yet fully functional, this hadn’t allowed them to distribute their proposal to as wide an audience in Scottish Trials as they would have preferred. Only Club representatives received the communication to pass on whichever way they saw fit to their membership base.

· The SACU acknowledged that while their management committee meeting minutes were displayed on the SACU website, the discipline committees had not yet followed suit and this was currently being addressed.

· The SACU also confirmed that they were currently waiting for feedback to their trials proposal from clubs and requested the TTRG to send this communication to encourage competitors to feedback their opinion to their club secretaries as soon as possible as the 2014 season is not that far distant. The TTRG representatives agreed to initiate this as soon as possible.

· The SACU representatives also confirmed that the SACU

were not

proceeding with any plans to charge a ‘Steward Fee’ on top of their event ‘Permit Fee’ as intimated in management meeting minutes of October 2013.

· The TTRG representatives confirmed that the group had been formed on an ‘ad-hoc’ basis and there were five members which made up the group. John Moffat had agreed to act as spokesperson for organisational contact, having served on the SACU for 10 years and was known to most of the governing bodies mentioned in the report.

· The SACU representatives were informed and understood why the group was formed, why their members had remained anonymous and that the group would cease to exist on 31

^st

December 2013. They also recognised that the TTRG report had been issued as a discussion document with good intentions and only for the best interests of the sport of trials in Scotland. There were no hidden agendas, ill-will or vindictiveness to any party, of any kind.

· There had been indications during the 2013 season that three SACU member clubs had been considering alternative affiliations to other associations, which gave cause for concern and the ad-hoc group was established to ensure that if this happened, that clubs had taken due account of all the ramifications of doing so.

· One of the three clubs, known to the group has now contacted the SACU and have stated they are keen on value and are awaiting developments.

· The TTRG would politely request that this club give careful and due consideration to the SACU’s proposals before proceeding further.

2.

The SACU Trials Proposal 2014:

The details of the Scottish ACU Trials proposals for 2014 season are shown below*.

Please note that the proposals are an ‘initial informal consultation’.

2.1 The SACU Trials Licence fee would be replaced by a £15.00 Trials Registration Fee.

2.2 There are then three components, totaling £5.00 which would form part of the trials event entry fee, these are:

1. £2.25 public liability insurance (as it is, 2013)

2. £1.00 personal accident insurance

3. £1.75 licence contribution

TTRG would ask that particularly SACU licence holders/competitors to respond to your club secretary or other club contact, intimating your agreement or otherwise, of these proposals.

Your club contact will collate all responses and make direct contact with the SACU in this regard.

Additionally, SACU Chairman, Paul Carlyle stated that he is very interested to have feedback direct from Scottish Trials competitors. Paul can be contacted by sending an e-mail to him on: pcarlyle@sacu.co.uk

*SACU Trials Proposal 2014 (Reproduced with the permission of the Scottish Auto Cycle Union Ltd)

(Issued to SACU Affiliated Clubs – 13 November 2013)

The SACU board has been exploring options with our insurers and some new offers to licence holders will come out shortly.

Specifically in relation to trials we have been aware of comments comparing our licence structure to other governing bodies.

After some investigation, we have the option of amending our approach. This note is intended as an initial informal consultation to gather views on a possible change.

At present an adult licence holder pays £50.00 for a licence (the same as all other disciplines). Within this cost, the rider benefits from personal accident insurance (details on the SACU website). Thereafter for each event the organising club pays £2.25 for each rider in relation to public liability insurance.

The option we are consulting on is to amend the licence fee to a registration fee of £15.00, with each club then being asked to remit an increased payment total £5.00 per rider for each event.

This £5.00 comprises the following 3 components:-

1.

£2.25 public liability insurance (as before)

2.

£1.00 personal accident insurance

3.

£1.75 licence contribution

Some further background information

1. The board feels that personal accident cover is important for our riders. The SACU is unusual in offering this cover compared to other governing bodies. However, we have seen a number of incidents where riders have been able to benefit from this when our sport "bites back". Many riders are self-employed and even a relatively minor injury can have an impact on your income. This is never an issue until you need it.

2. The proposal will rely on clubs efficiently managing the reporting and payments to the SACU. However, clubs already do this for the public liability payments and our experience with trials clubs as a whole is very positive so hopefully this should not present any additional workload.

3. We believe we will be able to hold the insurance levels for trials at the same level for 2014 (three years in a row). Clearly in the future we may be unable to continue to do this.

This is very much a proposal on which we are inviting comments. We realise that there will be some who benefit from this idea and others who do not. However, we have received various comments over the last year, which suggest that it is at least worth putting this proposal to clubs and riders. Many of you will recall that we undertook last year to bring options to consultation in late 2013.

I would be grateful if each of you could let us have your thoughts by email to Charles Mackenzie at the SACU office. Please use the subject "Trials Costs Proposal" in order that we can effectively collate responses.

Please feel free to gather views from your clubs and fellow riders, but equally let us have your own views as soon as possible.

Many thanks for your help in this.

Yours in sport,

Paul Carlyle Matt Peden

SACU Chairman SACU Trials Chairman

And finally, if you require any information regarding this communication or any distributed previously by The Trials Reform Group, please contact us by e-mail on:

thetrialsreformgroup@outlook.com

Thank you for your continued interest in Scottish Motorcycle Trials.

TTRG25 November 2013

[2stroke4stroke]

I suppose I could have posted that Ross but preferred to try and jog clubs in to action - there's no point moaning about lack of SACU communication then not passing it on when it does happen. And there must be a substantial number of SACU members who don't catch what gets published here, alas.

Edited November 25, 2013 by 2stroke4stroke

[slapshot 3]

It is down to the clubs to promote this but lets make sure everyone sees it

[rabie]

what level of personnel accident cover do you get in Scotland (sacu) ???

we (rest of UK - ACU) rolled back to 4 weeks hospitalisation, loss of eye, limbs, death, etc many years ago as it was so expensive and abused.

sorry to threadjack a bit

[heillancoo]

As far as i am aware this information was issued to all clubs two weeks ago however some clubs are better at communicating than others if clubs got there act together there would be no need for non existant so called groups sticking there selfe important noses in where they are not required.

[b40rt]

This is a new document, dated 25th November.

[heillancoo]

So the date is newer the information and cost proposal is the same

[b40rt]

Where did you see registration fee of £15 ? I thought the last proposal was £38 ?

[heillancoo]

£15 Registration fee was on the Document produced by the SACU 13TH November

[slapshot 3]

Ross it basically takes to a similar method of licensing as nearly all other organisations other than the AMCA. If it helps makes sport more affordable and helps more people get started, its got to be a good thing

[heillancoo]

Seems like its all irrelivant now as the bigger picture is taking over, makes you wonder who knew what and for how long me thinks dirty tricks have been afoot for quite some time.

[b40rt]

I'm way out the loop, what's the bigger picture / dirty tricks ?

[2stroke4stroke]

Ross, the "bigger picture" was (and again seemingly not communicated to members by clubs) that the ACU had pulled the plug on the SACU as far as controlling the sport in Scotland goes.

Latest news today is that a meeting was held betwen the two parties and we revert to the status quo.

[idmcc_sec]

It's quite simple to keep members informed.

I've emailed every member (with a valid email address,as some of the writing is atrocious!), sent links to the TTRG facebook page, SACU page and links to our own facebook page.

What else do you want me to do?!!

Further information will come from the SACU this coming week and will be distributed accordingly.

Dave (not frightened to disclose my identity, unlike some!)