Where Are Pre-65 Trials Going?

[laird387]

Hi,

Way back when, I (well-known as Victor Meldrew's grumpy old Dad) along with like minded friends, were involved in the creation of pre-65 trials, we were motivated by the fact that the Spanish manufacturers had looked at the potential market for trials machines then had designed and built machines from scratch actually suitable for the sport. We were all riding British machines, none of which had been designed and built for the sport, but merely adapted from the current road machinery.

The Spanish lightweights had better ground clearance, tighter turning circles, controllable power output and well chosen gear ratios. They were a lot easier to ride in the sections so the organisers had to create tighter, more demanding obstacles in order to sort the men from the boys.

It quickly developed to the state where the old British bangers could not manage the tight turns, sudden sharp climbs - no matter what the skill level of the rider.

Many couldn't afford to bring up a young family and buy a brand new Spanish machine (there was no second hand market - the bikes hadn't been here long enough!) so we created the sport for which I coined the phrase 'pre-65', where we could continue to ride our old British bikes.

Then the old wheel of progress churned, time passed, lax clubs turned a blind eye to incorrect eligibility in order to gain entries (or so they thought), and eventually sections were tightened to sort out the men from the boys and the 'cheat' machines became the norm. Now if you brought a genuinely eligible 'pre-65' machine to the standards required by me for the 'British Bike' series that I organised that subsequently became the 'Sammy Miller' series, I doubt whether you could find many sections that you could cope with.

'Big John' suggested a while back that maybe the Pre-65 SSDT could think about changing its title to the Pre-Unit SSDT, and I agree, there would be a lot of potential merit in that thought.

I wonder whether it is time to introduce new standards, simple factors like maximum ground clearance, minimum wheelbase, minimum weight - and maybe even more radical, like having to accept an offer of, say £2000, for any machine winning a championship trial, in order to limit the eventual cost of the sport in order that more people can afford to participate without resort to the current expensive ultra-specials.

Just a few random thoughts to try, once again, to save one of our sports from extinction.

Edited December 4, 2013 by laird387

[mattylad]

As good as it sounds the situation is too far gone to be recovered by rule changes.

As a 50+ year old I have no real interest in Pre65 although still own 2 bikes (Cub and RE Bullet) but prefer to ride twinshock as these were the bikes of my youth.

Otherwise course plotters should consider very easy sections designed for untouched bikes which will effectively bore to death the super trick bike riders who will move on to a more challenging environment, perhaps twinshock!

[jon v8]

I dont know where you live Mr Laird, but around the SW of England Pre 65 is doing well.The biggest problem is that the riders of the older machines are getting too old to ride them.Riders generally ride the bikes of their youth as Mattylad says,I'm 48 and I only know one rider younger than me who rides a rigid,(And he is rubbish... ) most people riding them are 60plus.So the sections just need to be kept rideable - not big rock steps and steep drops which frighten older riders who take a long time to recover from a minor spill.

You can try to introduce tighter rules - good luck with that,while I'm running Bath Classic ANYONE turning up with Brit bike will be welcome.Its not an easy thing to keep a Brit bike running,many dont have the time or skills to do it and have to pay for help.As for selling my bike for £2000 if I win - I dont think so,I've just spent £650 in parts to rebuild my AJS engine,thats before any machining costs.Dont think you'd get many takers in that class.

Its quite simple,to keep P65 going - put on sensible trials to suit the bulk of wobblers,and make them welcome.

[sparks2]

well said Jon.

All this has been done to death already as DW already knows.

[laird387]

Hi to JonV8,

As the Founder President of Bath Classic, I think I know just what your sections are like, but, and this applies to Sparks2, who rides with another of the clubs that I helped through start-up, I've already seen all the bickering that surrounded the SSDT, and as that is now my local event it hurts me to see such unnecessary potential misery simply because of the lack of a set of rules that are thoroughly understandable and very easy to apply.

Sorry, but just hoping the problems will go away happened before - and you are both members of clubs that were specifically created to ensure the problems went away so that people could just carry on riding their bikes and enjoying themselves.

All that I am really saying is, there are problems - and all because nobody wants to grasp the nettle and solve the riddle of the rules.

'Nuff said.

[duffers]

You said it yourself " We were all riding British machines, none of which had been designed and built for the sport, but merely adapted from the current road machinery."

With such varied machinery being adapted it was the engineering capability of the builder/rider that was the deciding factor in building a competitive british bike. There are still some pretty trick bikes out there that aren't cheating. I think we should count ourselves lucky that so many can still compete in our sport at varying levels on on varying budgets.

[woody]

There's a simple solution

Anyone who is interested can organise trials for standard British bikes. Those who own them and want to ride those events can do so. The regs can state clearly that modified bikes are not allowed. Anyone who turns up with one doesn't ride.

Those with modified bikes can continue to ride them in events that allow them.

There is room for both, can't see what the problem is?

[geniejlg]

Hello

I must hold my hands up and admit to owning a trick pre 65.

I started collecting my trick bits in 2009 and managed to get her up and running for the first time this year. Total cost spread over 4 years £10,000. If I enter a pre 65 trial and they have a special class that's the box I tick.

If they have a mix of pre 65 and twin shocks I am happy to enter as a twin shock. I find it very enjoyable to ride and so far it has been reliable.

If I ride a National pre 65 I will be lucky to creep into the top half of the entries in my class when I look at the results I normally start at the bottom and work my way up.

[nelly1]

hi im 41 and ride a beta evo for modern and a ty 175 for twinshock id love to own a p65 but they are so expensive there is no way i could own one im sure there a lot of others out there who would love to own one but cant justify the cost

[woody]

hi im 41 and ride a beta evo for modern and a ty 175 for twinshock id love to own a p65 but they are so expensive there is no way i could own one im sure there a lot of others out there who would love to own one but cant justify the cost

They're as expensive or as cheap as you want them to be

[nelly1]

well if you know of any cheap ones il have it

[gii]

Bought my Cotton on ebay 18 months ago for £1600, seemed cheap enough,

Rode it in the Clubman class in the Yorks Classic Championship series this year and proved competitive. (Good entries at their trials too !!)

Now I've bought new alloy rims and electronic ignition because I wanted to not because I had to.

Not a fashionable bike but I enjoyed riding it, and unlike my 'modern' bike, I think I'd get my money back, probably with enough interest to cover most of what I've recently spent on it.

Have just bought an Ariel that will be less competitive but cost many times more

As Woody says "They're as expensive or as cheap as you want them to be"

For me it's all about the pleasure, the pleasure of owning, the pleasure of riding, the pleasure of competing.

[pro sport]

They're as expensive or as cheap as you want them to be

Yep about as expensive or cheap as a brand new Mont 4rt ! and I would love the Montesa to be the price I paid for my first one (1970 Mk2) £250.

As had been said most of us old oldens hark back to when we first started trials, in my case on a Tiger Cub. But there's no way I could afford one nowdays, so I plumped for my best twinshock ride of the mid 70's and now ride a Cota Mk4b.

[andy m]

As a Bantam rider I can say there are £1000 bikes out there and 5k + bikes out there. Surely bums on seats is what counts in a minority sport. As Woody said events can be tailored to suit if needed. I rode my Bantam for a while with Marzocchis even with the calliper mounts, I now have Norton r/h stanchions which are more "in keeping" if you like. I use a Mikuni carb because if I don't want to replace Amals every couple of years, as a few have had to do.

[woody]

"Yep about as expensive or cheap as a brand new Mont 4rt "

If you want it to be yes. Otherwise no. I know someone who has built a couple of Bantams for close to, probably less than £1000 (each) One 4 speed and one 3 speed.and they are perfectly useable on the easy route at classic trials. Having ridden both I'm confident either would cope easily with the easy route at the Manx classic.

Both also look very tidy and presentable before anyone forms the image of two cobbled together old nails.

For someone with no chance of winning top honours, what more is needed than a bike like that which enables you to go out and enjoy a ride in suitable events?