Where Are Pre-65 Trials Going?

[charlie prescott]

Re Sparks2 post above

"I would venture to speculate that a good proportion or even perhaps a majority of 'pre-65' riders have little

or no interest in old trials bikes or trials as they were before the Bultaco era" yep I am one of them. I remember how crap the old stuff was then and in catalogue condition still is.

Don't get it myself those bikes were awful back then so was no central heating, cars, television, outside toilets, smog and almost everything else I had to grow up with thanks god all that's been consigned to the rubbish heap of time.

If there is so much demand for trials to ride these exactly as catalogue examples of why the British Motor Cycle "industry" went bust then why not just start clubs all over the country and put on events for them? You are obviously going to be oversubscribed and honestly good luck to you. Perhaps then I wont have to hear the endless droning on of usually ancient riders too old to ride bemoaning the lack of "real" trials and "real" trials bikes.

Don't forget though to get Dunlop to remanufacture that bloody useless old Trials Universal, no modern compounds or tech though, and Girling to also remanufacture those God awful shock non absorbers oh yes and good luck with the steel handlebars. On the plus side with the money you save not buying a Bantam you can just about afford a "period" Belstaff and you will also save on a crash helmet but buying the wife knitting lessons to knit you a bobble hat might use up the savings. Do they still make steel toe cap willies?

Anyway all p*** taking apart , was I ? , go on start a club put on the events and they will come and honestly good luck to you if that's what floats your boat. Perhaps then you can leave the rest of us to carry on enjoying ourselves riding our bikes

OTF I now feel you are an "Old Man" in a newer body??

Look. we know British bikes were never designed to be trials bikes and only adapted (before that damm date) but the fun was there, in making then work, and they mostly were troublesome. I have only just fitted central heating never had it before and it just seems to be a pain ,80 thousand homes were frozen last winter because of condensate pipes freezing!!! we never had this with ! "throw another log on the fire Mother". And if i fit my double glazing ?propping up the inside of the spare bedroom wall at present! and taking the space another bike could be in.Will I then have to throw the window open (my nabours do) to get fresh air into the house? Cars? Well you could fix a Moggy 1000 with a couple of spanners, with no ECU and No Limp Mode. Telly well I do watch Emmerdale while making my tea, but it does not sit in the corner playing to its self all-day long like in most of my friends houses. Outside Loos? well you did get a chance to get out of the house, but had to watch the rats nipping your toes when sat on it!! Smog? was that the stuff they had in the industrial towns? Where the production of BRITISH Motor cycles were made? Oh yes they don't do that anymore!!! I forgot. Dunlop are that was when tyres were made in Britain to, Girling? I thought NJB still made copies of them?? much better working, but also most of the other shock makers from around the world just copied them??? I still feel it was me wearing my Belstaff Trial Master jacket out to dinner with the upper-crust that has made them so trendy!!!

Trials Boots Haa the good old Fireman boots, a job to get on, a job to get off always adorning a back kitchen with the tartan lining on the before mentioned Belstaff- Barbour trousers keeping them warm. But best of all they mostly never leaked.

All my best bikes have lightweight steel bars has did GOV???

Look I have got to go, and cut my hedge with the shears (or clippers) as we call them around here.

Regards Charlie www.bsaotter.com

[scot taco]

To keep the pre65 type trials alive it definitely needs to get rid of the year thing and just call it British bikes class.I believe everyone will still ride what they like(2 or 4T) and won,t get so discouraged by too many rules.Thats been the reason for the decline of AHRMA here.To keep the whole lot going,classic,twin shock etc. the sections have to remain sane for the majority of us wobblers.If it,s not hard enough for the top few then let them go ride modern trials.IMO it,s about a day out with like minded folks on a bunch of cool bikes with a good competition that is challenging,but fun,not do or die.

[old trials fanatic]

To keep the pre65 type trials alive it definitely needs to get rid of the year thing and just call it British bikes class.I believe everyone will still ride what they like(2 or 4T) and won,t get so discouraged by too many rules.Thats been the reason for the decline of AHRMA here.To keep the whole lot going,classic,twin shock etc. the sections have to remain sane for the majority of us wobblers.If it,s not hard enough for the top few then let them go ride modern trials.IMO it,s about a day out with like minded folks on a bunch of cool bikes with a good competition that is challenging,but fun,not do or die.

[sparks2]

I have never objected to modified bikes, indeed all mine are modified to a greater or lesser extent.

I never object to the modern ways of life (except perhaps rude and abusive people).

I have never objected to calling these trials 'British Bike' , 'Classic' , call them what you will.

My previous post was meant as a statement of fact not personal opinion.

I was merely trying to offer an answer to 'The Laird's' original question 'Where we are going with Pre-65 Trials'

i.e. why we are where we are with (British) (Classic) (Pre-65) trials.

i.e. why a set of universal rules is never going to work or be implemented.

In fact, in an early post I said the topic had really been done to death i.e.nothing useful is going to come out of it.

So I am not going to skulk away and form my own club, nor am I going to go away to leave the rest of 'you' to enjoy

riding your bikes and take exception to the suggestion that I should do so.

(Could 'The Laird' now comment Please)

Edited December 13, 2013 by sparks2

[woody]

i.e. why a set of universal rules is never going to work or be implemented.

Agreed, as where there are rules they are rarely, if ever, implemented, regardless of club or series, and that includes the Pre65 Scottish. Which is just as well as a good few of the rules, across the board, are plain bloody ridiculous.

These rules allow you to have, say, a 2013 Cub, with tiny modern style tank and seat, dellorto carb, all the modern pattern parts you can find, forks with modern mudguard braces with ugly welded on extensions, all of which make the bike look nothing like a 1964 model, but it's ok because it's 'silhouette'.... That bike will qualify as a Pre65 or Pre70, whichever, but if some poor sod turns up on a genuine 1964 spec C15 weighing twice as much as the Cub, with steel everything, original electrics and carb, but the owner has moved the shock mounts by say 1" - something that was no doubt done back then - then that bike has to go in the specials as it is non-standard.

You gotta laugh....

In fact, in an early post I said the topic had really been done to death i.e.nothing useful is going to come out of it.

Agreed again, nothing ever will.

And again for the record, I have no issue with the modernised bikes, but why there has to be these absurd rules that actually achieve nothing and in reallity can penalise owners of far more standard bikes - example above - is just way beyond any logical comrehension I can fathom.

The bikes have been modified for decades now, and it's way over time that this should just be accepted. Call it what you will but they have become the norm and they are essentially the 'standard'. So what if they have a brand new billett hub and yokes or an old Bultaco, Ossa or Yamaha hub and whatever yokes. Who cares ffs, they're all modified.

Let them all compete as one in the Pre65 or Pre70 class. Original unmodified Pre65 bikes can have their own classes. It's not hard...

And don't get me started on the absolute absurdity that is the ruling that governs what you have to do if you have a tubeless rim fitted. You can have the tubeless rim, and you can have the tubeless tyre, but you have to fit a tube - the one bloody component that you can't actually see.....

And have you ever tried breaking the bead on a tubeless tyre to replace the inner tube if you puncture... I bet the person who dreamed up the rule hasn't.

[totalshell]

the solution to your final point is simple.. sure have a tubeless rim tubeless tyre with a tube.. i 'hear' you run the tube with a very large hole in it..and inflate the tyre...

[woody]

So how do you stop the air leaking past the valve? All tubeless rims are supposed to be subjected to a test of pushing the valve into the rim to make sure there is a tube on the end of it and that the tyre isn't being used tubeless. If the tube has a hole in it, any air pumped in will just leak straight past the valve making it impossible to inflate the tyre.

The only way to get around that is to seal the valve into the rim, in which case it will be fixed and fail the test. Or is this another rule that is applied inconsistently.

Whatever, just another example of how ill thought out and utterly pointless some of these rules are and how they achieve nothing other than to incur riders with additional and unnecessary effort and costs in order to 'comply'.

[laird387]

Hi,

'Tis Victor Meldrew's Grumpy Old Dad again !

My answer to my original question is that the reality of the 'allow anything' mentality has created precisely the situation where so-called 'slightly modified' expensive machinery results in many organisers setting sections which are tighter, steeper, harder than ever they were 'in the day' - which is all well and good if you are either capable of doing your own engineering to meet the new section challenges - or can afford to buy 'suitable' machinery. Precisely the situation that obtained when three of us who couldn't afford to buy a new Spanish trialler but still wanted to ride our trials machines set to and organised the very first 'pre-65' trial, which we called the 'Bigger Banger Trial' on the land above the Red Lion pub. We had fifty-three entries, which compared favourably with the current modern events in the area who were lucky to get thirty souls out on a Sunday.

That first event was won by Arthur Lampkin who brought his rigid Gold Star across the Pennines from Silsden and thoroughly enjoyed himself.

We decided to make the event an annual day out and, for the second running, changed the title to 'The Shawforth Shake' and the rest is history.

Sadly, as one who saw it all before but then bothered to do something about it, I am seeing history repeat itself, as it inevitably does, and it saddens me.

[stanmet]

hi derek nice to see you back hope you are well keep it coming stan

[dpc7]

I'm a total newcomer to Pre-65, in fact I haven't even ridden in one yet but I've just bought a Cub which I'm getting ready.

I'm in my early 50's and as a teenager owned a Greeves Anglian, that's what sparked my interest again now, the fatal browsing on eBay for a bike from my youth.

I don't know if it's a declining scene with falling entries or not. I visited a Yorkshire Classic club trial and everyone seemed very friendly and there looked to be a good entry. Nobody seemed very keen on the Greeves Anglian but there were plenty of guys there who knew a lot about Cubs. I love the aesthetics of the Cub and spotted one which floated my boat on eBay and purchased it. It's not a tricked up Armac or Evo Cub just a very nice old bike. The owner was a VMCC member and he told me that the previous owner had built it to a high standard to Scottish regs many years ago. I think it looks great and like it the way it is. My expectations of my own riding ability are very low and for me this was one of the key attractions of Pre-65, they offer easier routes at the events and whilst there are some excellent riders there it isn't an overly competitive scene if you don't want it to be. I felt it was something I could have a go at without seriously injuring myself or making a total dick of myself (remains to be seen!). It appears be a friendly, unintimidating and fun. I am not in the least bit worried that somebody is riding a fantastic Armac or Evo Cub, they look superb, yes they have the geometry of a modern bike and the only Pre-65 bit left may be the crankcases, but if that's what you want and there's a class for it, what's wrong with it? I didn't see these non-standard bikes as a barrier. To me the more bikes the merrier, let's just have different classes and sections with differing levels of difficulty. Put a good rider on my comparatively standard looking Cub and I'm sure he'd do well, put me on a tricked up Cub and I'd still be cr@p. I'm looking for enjoyment and fun.

I suppose there may be a danger of dwindling entries as the average age of the riders increases.

It isn't just Pre-65 where the average age is increasing this is common to all of motorcycling with very few young people getting on two wheels these days (have you seen how complicated it is to pass a bike test these days?).

If entries are falling I am not sure it is the regulations that are putting people off, more likely just the average age of the riders increasing.

The classic bike scene (road bikes at least) is very healthy and whilst a lot of people gravitate towards the bikes of their youth there are a lot of people buying classic bikes from an era earlier than their youth.

I think the regulations need to be inclusive not exclusive. Keep the events attractive to differing levels of riders, Have different classes according to the level of modifications. Offer easy routes and hard routes.

That may be an over-simplistic and naive view, but being new to this I wasn't dissuaded from having a go because somebody may be riding an expensive and highly modified machine.

I can appreciate and enjoy seeing a highly modified machine as well as a nicely prepared more standard machine.

I'm not out to win any prizes and I suspect most newcomers would be the same.