gizza5 Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Both with rule bending as in the case of Pol Tarres and introduction of rules which only give more advantages to Honda as telecast says above. Last year was closer with raga as near as he has been If the rules were changed to suit Honda (some conspiracy theory by the way) yet Raga on the 2 stroke Gasser was closer then he has been then your opinion is flawed? I do agree Andrew that the WTC is a shambles, but that does affect me or most people on here? Apart from the top few there is no money in it for them, so they move on to work for a living or ride extreme Enduro's and that is the reality! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted December 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 If the rules were changed to suit Honda (some conspiracy theory by the way) yet Raga on the 2 stroke Gasser was closer then he has been then your opinion is flawed? I do agree Andrew that the WTC is a shambles, but that does affect me or most people on here? Apart from the top few there is no money in it for them, so they move on to work for a living or ride extreme Enduro's and that is the reality! The Rules for 2014 have changed to Benefit Honda, NOT last year. Raga was closer because the bike improved mainly because of Gas Gas developments. Those were under a restricted budget and most feed though to the Bike we can buy. It has taken Honda years to realise nobody wants a bike that is so far away from Bou's and do something about it. No there is little money in it and the fact is that the "works" teams are the only ones seeing a return. Getting a Sponsor to finance the team outside of the works teams is a complete no go because the FIM's ideas of marketing and rules makes it too difficult to sell the concept to them 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 I didnt mind the additional weight idea IF it led to more reliable bikes or more environmentally friendly bikes. However without other measures at the same time all that's going to happen is a few bolts and exhausts will go back to being steel. The capacity limits dont make any sense to me. Noise is a problem and the mont is no saint. Why not apply a noise limit at a higher rpm ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Why do people moan about Honda, they are the biggest motorcycle company in the world, they are probably the most successful mc company, have won the most, in all disciplines and have the most influence with the FIM. The 4rt is heavy, compared to anything else, but at clubman level, it isn't uncompetitive, it has plenty of power, it's just different to what most are use to. Honda is not try to put every one out of business, they want to win, have the best rider by far and the works bike is as good as any other factory bike, maybe better, but if Bou was on a Gas Gas, he would still be winning. I don't believe in this so called Honda conspiracy, there isn't one, yes Honda can use there influence to guide things there way, but surely all the other manufacturers could join together to stop something they don't like, if they wanted to. Montesa/Honda is fortunate enough to have Repsol as a sponsor, so has a lot more money to go with HRC and Honda's money. If BMW wanted to sell and compete in Trials, they would no doubt have plenty of resources a Sponsor etc. Beta, Gas Gas, Sherco, OSSA are tiny company's with very little money, they make superb bikes, but why should Honda lower there standards, just to give everyone else a chance. I hear people wishing trials could get bigger, we should be trying to get big sponsors in etc etc. well, Red Bull could spend a lot more money on trials, but they don't, because they don't think it's worth it, but just say they did, trials could end up being controlled by someone who has very little interest in Trials, but purely for the potential profit they could make (Honda/Montesa don't make a lot of money out of trials, they do it to win and because there are people within Honda who are passionate about trials). Every sport is suffering at the moment due to the world recession. Trials riders don't have control of the WTC, the FIM do and they choose who will run it and what the rules will be, if you as a rider want to compete in their WTC, you have to accept their rules. WTC has nothing in common with club trials, there will be no weight limits or cc limits, the clubs don't want that and don't have the man power to police it. The British championship may have these limits, just to put it inline with the WTC and eventually, the manufacturers will only be selling bikes within these limits, but it won't stop You riding a bike that isn't, in a club trial. There are plenty of clubs still run under stop allowed and that is almost certain to continue, if it doesn't and they don't have a choice, I would imagine those that want stop allowed will go amca. What happens in the WTC has very little relevance to club riders, trials will only die out if no one supports their local trials clubs. As long as they have land owners willing to allow them to use there land and plenty of riders willing to come and pay, it will continue. So stop worrying about this rule and that rule, just get out and support your trials club and enjoy your bike. Have a Happy Trials New Year :0) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Good post jj65 but I don't think the increase in weight limit is related to Honda not wanting to lower their standards? I think telecat and baldilocks have answered correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) If the rules were changed to suit Honda (some conspiracy theory by the way) yet Raga on the 2 stroke Gasser was closer then he has been then your opinion is flawed? mark I didn't say the rules were changed to suit Honda in 2012, the no stop rule change made it closer, try to follow simple information! Put in even easier terms, weight limits and cc ARE changing for 2014. Edited December 31, 2013 by nigel dabster 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted December 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Honda lower their standards. They have done nothing for years. When they finally decide that the Club riders can have something the works bikes have the prices remain sky high. I do not see value in Honda's bikes as unlike say Gas Gas who now have several specially developed features available on the PRODUCTION bikes that are on the Works machines. Honda are acting like BSA, Triumph and Norton did back in the "day". Huffing and puffing about better bikes made by smaller makers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzpete Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 The main point is this information should have been made public 12 months ago. If you want to ride a world round and are underweight its no big deal you cable tie a house brick behind your headlight. But if you have just purchased a 300cc bike which is 2cc over the limit it is a expensive exercise to conform to the 290cc rule. It is a complete disrespect for the non factory supported riders. FIM said they would make it more accessible by changing the rules well I am still waiting for these changes. My sons new bike a 300 Beta is still sailing its way here not even got it yet and this news hits. Planning underway for competing in Aussie world round. True most not effected by these changes but put yourself in our ( and riders like us) shoes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 I'm sorry to here that, have you sent an email to the FIM ? As I said before, it doesn't affect club riders, only if you want to ride the WTC. Have you contacted beta to see what is available. Your absolutely right, it's pretty poor to find out the new rules this late, but it's their WTC, so they can do as they like and if you want to ride, then you have to comply to their rules. (I know this doesn't help your situation, but I am sure this has happened in many other sports before) Most the riders who enter the WTC are at least supported by their countries importer and in the uk, have/buy new bikes every 3/4 months, so no doubt, by the time their round of the WTC comes around, they would have a new bike. I'm sure all the manufacturers have thought about this already. I am no mechanical expert, but I would imagine it would require a new head and piston, maybe you could ask the factory for an exchange, before he rides it, (via air mail) with you covering the mailing cost only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 I think it is more disappointing that the 125 weight limit is increasing from 65 to 69Kg. This 4Kg increase will have a bigger impact on the lighter A & B class schoolboys than it does at adult level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 I think it is more disappointing that the 125 weight limit is increasing from 65 to 69Kg. This 4Kg increase will have a bigger impact on the lighter A & B class schoolboys than it does at adult level. ACU a and b will not have weight limit next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neils on wheels Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 ACU a and b will not have weight limit next year That's better news. Hopefully the bikes won't be made heavier in the future; just removable weight added to meet FIM requirements; otherwise riders will be hindered despite national regulations, or the lack of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Looks Like the Proof reader at the FIM has been Fired. the 2T engine limit is now 300cc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 The rules seem absurd and inconsistent see page 277 of http://www.acu.org.uk/Uploaded/1/Documents/2014%20Handbook/2014Road%20Racing.pdf and see what powerful, heavy road racing bikes youngsters can ride. The new 125cc under 19 limit in the UK (the result of unaccountable Eurocrats) is going to damage trials. I know of several big strong lads who have moved up to 250s or 300s, they now can't ride in some nationals, the scott or scottish. Additionally its means getting the car and trailer out to get to practice areas instead of just riding there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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