laird387 Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 Hi, Not being able to find any images of DOT machines, which were very definitely Pre 65, I thought this might help! It shows the pre-weigh-in activities in Edinboro', ready for the 1964 SSDT. Complete with woodworking brace is works rider Eric Adcock, drilling the holes to fix his 'official' SSDT number: Michael Wade, the disabled son of the founder of the DOT empire, steadies the machine, under the watchful eye of his Dad, in Salford flat cap, Burnard Scott Wade. The name DOT, was derived from a previous venture, the "Devoid of Trouble" cycle forecar, with insulated box on the front from which street vendors pedalled around Manchester selling ice creams........... Enjoy (ice cream or image - whichever is your fancy...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tltel Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 Nice Picture, my dad had a dot back in the early 60's and he always said it was his favourite bike ever and he had quite a few. I don't think there were any pictures taken of it. So, a question. When all the company's that used Villiers engines, like, Dot, Greeves, Cotton, James, sprite and many more that I can't think o fat the moment were building bikes, was there much difference in the engines supplied by Villiers or was it just the frames that made the bikes what they were. What was AMC? My first bike (I was 9) was a James 150 (commodore or captain I think) it was chopped to make a field bike back in the days when the local Farmer was happy for you to ride in the fields as soon as the corn was cut. Anyway my Dad always said it was an AMC engine but I am sure it said Villiers on it. TLTEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks2 Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Thanks Deryk Great photo, only Eric Adcock with us now of course. Thank heaven for battery drills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted December 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Hi TLTEL, In the dim and distant post war years in Britain there were only four manufacturers of twostroke engines that I can recall. One was the Bantam produced by BSA, another was the Wolverhampton based Villiers, the third was based down south and called British-Anzani and the fourth was based at Saltaire, Shipley near Bradford and carried the name of their founding engineer, Alfred Scott. The Anzani and the Scott were twins, Villiers created a twin model much later. Alfred Scott was, in effect, the 'father' of trials riding. He was very proud of his machines and insisted that every one sold was thoroughly tested before being passed to the customer, so he devised a specific route for his development testers to ride every one of the machines that left the factory - to make it more interesting for them he devised special obstacle course type hazards around the set course, on which the testers were judged and given an award for the best performance. Privateers, mainly new owners of the machines, became interested and joined in - lo and behold, the first ever motorcycle reliability trial in the world was born - the 'Scott Trial' - and still in the minds of many, the supreme test of competition motorcycling to this day. As far as your Villiers thoughts are concerned, there were many manufacturers of road machines that had traditionally assembled motorcycles around engines (and gearboxes) manufactured by others. For the sporting community a host of manufacturers made their own frames, etc., and used the Villiers 'power' plant. The James that your father started with was either a Cadet with a 150cc Villiers, or a Captain with the 197cc Villiers 8E. If it was an actual trials model it would be the Commando with the Villiers 8E with a wide ratio set of gears, initially with rigid back end then later with a swinging arm. Arthur Lampkin's first bike, like my own, was a rigid three-speed Commando. In later years AMC (Associated Motor Cycles - Norton, AJS, Matchless, James and Francis-Barnett plus they were the initial import agents for Suzuki) did make their own twostroke motor, but it was incredibly wide and not very popular - their best result with that was Mick Ransom's third place in the SSDTon the works Francis-Barnett, whereas with the rigid trialler and a Villiers 125cc motor, George Fisher had been narrowly beaten into second place in 1954 just two marks behind Artie Ratcliffe on his works rigid Matchless. Does that help? Cheers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Hi Guy's. Just posted on Classic Trials. before reading this. Mine was a James too, but with plunger suspension ?? read on CT. Seems like the Old trials world had a more colourful past than the present one? only just started thinking about it. Keep them coming Deryk. Brilliant. Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted December 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Hi, The ordinary 9E iron barrelled DOTs were reasonably priced - so relatively popular, here is just such a model ridden regularly around 1965 in the Bristol area, by Mike Naish, who contributed a trials column to ORR for me. Here Mike is in a Crediton club trial in 1964. Enjoy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tltel Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Laird 387 Thanks for that in depth reply. The James I mentioned wasn't an off road model and really wasn't that good, it was the one with a pressed steel rear frame, the same as a Francis Barnett model that I saw for sale recently, It had a swinging arm with small springs but no damping, I managed to squeeze an old motocross tyre on but had to cut some of the side knobbles off so they cleared the chain. So it would have been a Villiers then not AMC. Sorry for the hijack, back to the DOTs TLTEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hi, Now you did ask for DOT machines - not just solos? The time is August Bank Holiday 1961 and the trial is the Clayton Trophy, run by the Wood Green club in London - but the trial took place in the Peak District in Derbyshire. This section is 'Cheeks', directly alongside the A53 Buxton to Leek road and the outfit is the lightweight DOT sidecar of Arthur Pulman with wife Lyn in the chair - both very good friends of mine. But times change and I believe that section of road has now been rebuilt, so the old 'Cheeks' is now just off the lay-by that used to be the old road. Enjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi, Another image from my offroadarchive, showing Ken Sedgley with his Alloy Works Replica DOT in the 1965 national Traders Cup trial. If any members want a print (a photograph - not just a photocopy) of any of the images from the offroadarchive that I have posted on TC, then just send me a PM with details of which image. Enjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigplonker Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Bought this superb DOT recently as a sort of retirement present. Hasten to say that its excellent condition is due to the previous owner, not me. Have now fitted electronic ignition for improved reliability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Bigplonker, I'd say that dot hit's the spot ... And Laird387 , your photo's and history lessons are SUPERB ! Thanks , Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi, axulsuv, In my experience psychologists are smart enough to park their bikes out of sight in the yard - deviousness has no limits.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon v8 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 That is a very smart looking DOT,(Don't Order Two) as Mick Andrews told us.... Only joking,very nice,but wondering about your comments re fitting the electronic ignition.Talking to several Villiers powered bike owners it seems many are still using or have gone back to points ignition.All they do is move the HT coil and condenser up under the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 That is a very smart looking DOT,(Don't Order Two) as Mick Andrews told us.... Only joking,very nice,but wondering about your comments re fitting the electronic ignition.Talking to several Villiers powered bike owners it seems many are still using or have gone back to points ignition.All they do is move the HT coil and condenser up under the tank. Just wondering why John as I much prefer the motor fitted with electronic. Power delivery is way improved and the ones I have tried with points always feel flat as a fart and woolly off the bottom and don't rev out or pull anyway near as well at the top end either. Basically they run as crap as they did back in 1967 when I had my first Greeves Scottish and what a pile of poo that was. So why replace with an inferior ignition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigplonker Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Interesting to read of differing opinions regarding electronic ignition. Should I have stayed with the original points system or was I right to swap to electronic? To be honest, I don't really know. But I do know that when the bike arrived out here in France the engine wouldn't rev out and was way down on power so I had it delivered to a top trials shop in Kent for surgery. Have just received confirmation that the operations were successful (fitting of new engine seals etc. plus 'leccy ignition) and the bike now runs fine. However, bike surgeon recommends replacement of worn Mk.1 Amal carb to make perfect. Do these expenses ever stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.