laird387 Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Hi Woody, Slight misunderstanding of the facts, I feel. The SSDT committee were very late in deciding that pre-65 trials had arrived, their first attempt at organising one was almost thirteen years after the first actual pre-65 event - and the sport had already evolved considerably in that period. They introduced their own interpretation of eligibility rules based totally on their misunderstanding of what was happening elsewhere - and it's just being getting worse ever since. Don't forget they welcomed a machine with a frame that resembled a Spanish model - but with a distinctly British fourstroke motor - and awarded the rider with acclaim. Sad - but true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 As for the yokes Std cast iron Bsa, Triumph, Alloy Ceriani, REH, and MP's can all be used, Billets yokes are acceptable from the aftermarket suppliers, the pinch bolts must also be on inside, this rules out the use of more modern Bultaco, Yamaha, Suzuki, Fantic, Ossa etc. Willie Now just let me try and get my head around this statement. So it's ok to use a billet yoke made in 2014 that resembles nothing in use prior to December 31st 1964 but NOT ok to use the more "modern" yokes made in the early 1970's or even before the 1970's ???????? sorry but I'm struggling I really am with the concept. Must be a Scottish mindset. At the end of the day at least we all get a good laugh out of the twists and turns of the organisers trying to justify their twisted logic and selective myopia re certain bikes when ridden by certain people. Is it this daft with ALL Scottish clubs at their trials? If so no wonder they are struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 They introduced their own interpretation of eligibility rules based totally on their misunderstanding of what was happening elsewhere - and it's just being getting worse ever since. Or, what's happening "elsewhere" is not relevant ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Now just let me try and get my head around this statement. So it's ok to use a billet yoke made in 2014 that resembles nothing in use prior to December 31st 1964 but NOT ok to use the more "modern" yokes made in the early 1970's or even before the 1970's ???????? sorry but I'm struggling I really am with the concept. Must be a Scottish mindset. At the end of the day at least we all get a good laugh out of the twists and turns of the organisers trying to justify their twisted logic and selective myopia re certain bikes when ridden by certain people. Is it this daft with ALL Scottish clubs at their trials? If so no wonder they are struggling. OTF, name and shame the "certain" people, or drop it. Edited January 2, 2014 by b40rt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hi Guys. Question???? Has anyone got a sense of humour in Scotland ?????? And do they take any notice of anyone else's rules.????? Bantam forks on a Pre 1965 motorcycle , running in a motorcycle observation trial that is for Pre 1965 motorcycles should be at the best forks from a C15 BSA or a Triumph Mountain Cub, and should only have a three speed gearbox. And still look like a BSA Bantam from a side wards looking view, am I right????? Did the bard take liberties with the Scottish play????? Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hi Guys. Question???? Has anyone got a sense of humour in Scotland ?????? And do they take any notice of anyone else's rules.????? Bantam forks on a Pre 1965 motorcycle , running in a motorcycle observation trial that is for Pre 1965 motorcycles should be at the best forks from a C15 BSA or a Triumph Mountain Cub, and should only have a three speed gearbox. And still look like a BSA Bantam from a side wards looking view, am I right????? Did the bard take liberties with the Scottish play????? Regards Charlie. no,no,yes,no and I seriously doubt the bantams this year will comply with number 3 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hi OTF, Having lived in Scotland, as well as South of the border, I can personally vouch for the fact that many of the Scottish clubs and enthusiasts most certainly do not share the somewhat blinkered approach to machine eligibility that is adopted in the pre-65 SSDT - and there are many Scots with their own somewhat different sense of fun!! One personal example - it was noticeable to me when I was publishing ORR that there were very few subscribers based in Scotland - yet there was a constant stream of comments and queries from a very interested bunch of riders. Eventually quiet delving gained me the admission that there was a group with a single subscription copy of the magazine which was then shared round the group with a sort of token scheme rather like a lending library. Of course, it should have been obvious - the word 'canny' is, after all, of scottish derivation........ And don't get me wrong, my first visit was in 1954 when I rode my rigid AJS 347cc from my home in Yorkshire, camping rough with my little tent, etc, in my rucksack, taking three days to get to cross 'Bealach-na-baa' the highest road in Great Britain to get to Applecross, where I had a coffee before setting off back home, taking another three days. Why ? Because my little pocket diary, the RAC diary, had a list in the back of the steepest gradients and highest roads in Great Britain and I wanted to be able to cross them off one by one. Mad youth !! But sixty years later I now live here and quite often my wife and I drive over the Pass of Cattle to have lunch at the Applecross Inn - bringing back flooding memories. And please take my word for it - the Kinlochleven Pre-65 is totally atypical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 One personal example - it was noticeable to me when I was publishing ORR that there were very few subscribers based in Scotland - yet there was a constant stream of comments and queries from a very interested bunch of riders. Eventually quiet delving gained me the admission that there was a group with a single subscription copy of the magazine which was then shared round the group with a sort of token scheme rather like a lending library. Of course, it should have been obvious - the word 'canny' is, after all, of scottish derivation........ One of the reasons I don't subscribe to many magazines is the lack of local interest. Apart from pre 65 and ssdt there in no coverage. The exception this year was the Highland 2 day, which was excellent. Look through all the photos you have very kindly posted and this makes my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) Hi b40rt, I take your point - but had you tried ORR you would have found a fairly frequent feature entitled 'Scotsman of the Month', using local photographs. One I remember featured a group, all with their machines including Bobby MacLeod, Ali MacDonald, Hugh MacDonald, Ian Pollock, Paul Kilbrauskas, Tommy MacNab and Billy MacLeod. I regularly featured histories of Scots competitors such as Ian Pollock, 'Ali Beag' and the like and I both rode, and reported on pre-65 events that I attended north of the border, particularly some of the early ones in the Dumfries area. Couple to that a regular contribution from none other than 'Big John' meant that I was giving as fair coverage as I could to your sport. With luck and a following wind I will use some photographs that might well cause you to rethink your general criticism of 'magazines'........... Enjoy anyway. Edited January 3, 2014 by laird387 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Not a "criticism", just an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi, A Scots snippet. This image of Johnny Brittain, on his way to winning the SSDT on his Royal Enfield Bullet, climbing Loch Eild Path is - to many minds - truly evocative of the lure of the highlands. It only exists because a couple of Lochaber enthusiasts, Ian Pollock and Paul Kilbauskas (a native born Lithuanian) spent hours roaming the hills around Fort William, firstly finding suitable venues to set taxing trials sections, then establishing precisely who owned the piece of land that those potential sections were located on, then finding out precisely who had the authority to give them permission to use them in a trial, then finding logical ways to link the potential sections to existing routes where they already had permission. When they had all of that information in place, then they had to arrange to visit the person in authority over the land, at that person's convenience, and present the whole picture of what they wanted to do, when they wanted to do it - what potential effects that would have on local wildlife, whether it would interfere with the hunting and fishing that the area often relied upon to make a living - and persuade them to grant the permission. Armed with that permission they then had to present their case to the local highway and route planning authorities in order to get the case for use presented to whatever committee would consider such planning applications. When all those permissions were in place they then had to present the potential to the SSDT organising committee in far away Edinburgh in order to persuade the Clerk of the Course that the new 'find' was a worthwhile asset. For my sins I have done a lot of those activities down South in order to assist in the creation of my British Bike championship series (now known as the Sammy Miller series) and also, in conjunction with Ian Rennie, the re-establishment of the 'Arbuthnot Trial' after it had disappeared off the calendar in 1929, so I can appreciate more than most just what sterling work Ian 'Pathfinder' Pollock, Paul Kilbauskas and many of the Lochaber-based SSDT team put in over the years. Be thankful that there have always been volunteers that have created the sport we all enjoy - be it modern or classic - don't just take it all for granted........ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Hi, Reverting to the original topic, Bantam forks, here is an image by Gordon Francis for offroadarchive of a Somerton Classic trial, where Bryan Hyett was riding his 175 BSA Bantam in the Pre-65 unit class. Enjoy Edited January 4, 2014 by laird387 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi Guy's. Coincidence again!!!!! I have just this afternoon started to strip down for a rebuild the BSA C15T that Brian built that was featured, on the front cover of a late ORR magazine, The blue framed bike, story on my web site. The boys in the IOM have had it for a couple of years and have now swapped it for the Mk2 BSA C15 Otter of mine for a while. I was watching the James May Meccano Bike story from the IOM,and if you look there were two BSA Otters in the clock workshop ,I am told that the Blue tanked bike is ridden by the owner of the workshop, and the other looks in mid build. Story on BSA Otter web site. later. Funny old thing life. Regards Charlie. www.bsaotter.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Hi, Sorry to bother this topic with those confusing details called 'historical facts' but I thought you might be interested in a look at the BSA factory's own version of the 175cc Bantam trials machine. This actual 'works' bike was loaned to my old mate Bill Price, in late 1966 'for evaluation'. So there's one of those naughty little facts again - the works Bantam in late 1966 - i.e. not before 1965. That is why, in the day, we allocated it to the pre-70 class where it could compete on relatively fair terms with its contemporaries (Minarelli Cottons - maybe) Anyway - whatever your point of view, enjoy. Edited January 8, 2014 by laird387 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hi, And for a little spice to the discussion, other people had their own ideas about how to make a Bantam trials model - the motors were nice and cheap and virtually bomb-proof, so why not. One of those variants, which I believe was created by Mick Whitlock - but maybe someone can confirm that, was ridden by Doug Theobald, and here's a picture for you to enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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