knobbly Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 I have just aquired a 76 TL250. It apprears to run pretty well, but needs some fettling for trials. I need to sort out shocks and was thinking of 16" Rockshocks, but have some new 420mm Ohlins off a Armstrong MT500 that might work. Standard shocks are 360mm long, but there is mention on here of 16" (406mm) being a length that works in getting the bike to stear. It's now in bits and I do not want waste time sorting shocks when it all goes together so.....My questions are: 1) Has anybody got any experience of these Ohlins shocks on a TL or TLR perhaps (which has 400mm shocks as standard) 2) Is 16"(406mm) the longest that I can go if I get Rockshocks for some sort of stability. 3) Will 420mm be too much for stability. 3) Spring rates - I am 17 stone so my extra weight might cancel out the lighter TL over the MT any views. 4) Any other advice is most welcome as for now I will be riding it as fairly standard, then if it all goes well go for a lighter silencer arrangement (anyone tried to fit an alloy/stainless TLR unit), cut down frame rear and and an alloy sump to give greater ground clearance. Thank you for taking the time to answer. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Don't think Rockshocks come as long ad 406mm but can be lengthened with a spacer at the rode end if required. John can obviously advise. The advantage of R S is the length easily can be changed, and change damping characteristics to. I have a pair of 70lbs springs (New) for sale if you go for lighter rate and don't find them strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I have 390mm NJB Experts on my TL250, Fork passed about 10mm down with "Wirth" progressive forks springs and it works good... Uploaded with ImageShack.us Edited January 2, 2014 by hendrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seldredg Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I also have NJB Experts, 15.3 inches, and I raised the forks in the triple clamps by about 3/4 inch. The bike now turns. I can make tight turns nearly as well as on my Gas Gas. I had the foot pegs relocated down and back by building another bracket off the end of the existing one, and I used Hebo foot pegs. This makes a large difference in how the bike feels. I feel less perched way up on top of it. I'm getting measurements of how much the rake and trail changed with these changes. I'll post pictures later if I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seldredg Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Bike with 15.3 inch shocks and footpegs back and down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I've ridden a TL250 with the rake pulled in to make it turn. Felt great to me. By keeping the stock length shocks you keep the center of gravity low and the swingarm angle flatter which I think makes the suspension action feel better,keeps the chain from pulling the bike down into it's travel under power.....But the increased ground clearance may be worth the trade off on TL's,I never road the deraked TL in any sections that would give me a real feel for how it would do in competition....I would absolutely lower the footpegs though,seldreg's mod looks spiffy ;-) Just some alternative thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I've ridden a TL250 with the rake pulled in to make it turn. Felt great to me. By keeping the stock length shocks you keep the center of gravity low and the swingarm angle flatter which I think makes the suspension action feel better,keeps the chain from pulling the bike down into it's travel under power Depends on spring rate and rider weight, worth checking how it's "in the section" Where did the original poster go ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seldredg Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 I've ridden a TL250 with the rake pulled in to make it turn. Felt great to me. By keeping the stock length shocks you keep the center of gravity low and the swingarm angle flatter which I think makes the suspension action feel better,keeps the chain from pulling the bike down into it's travel under power.....But the increased ground clearance may be worth the trade off on TL's,I never road the deraked TL in any sections that would give me a real feel for how it would do in competition....I would absolutely lower the footpegs though,seldreg's mod looks spiffy ;-) Just some alternative thoughts Using the long shocks does raise the CG, but I like the steering improvement. I'm tall and have a high CG. The stock bike already felt high and top heavy and ill proportioned with the foot pegs, so the raising the CG a little more couldn't make it much worse. I'm getting a new frame, and will go back to a stock length on the shocks. Do you have any idea how much the rake was pulled in? I've read factory riders did 1.5 degrees, but I don't what the stock rake is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 HTR Doug has the right idea. Longer shocks are a quick fix to make it turn better, but at the expense of getting the front end up easily. I cut my own frame 30 years ago it was quite easy. At the time there was a step by step article in a magazine. (Unbelievable a real trials article in the USA) I wish I would of pulled it in just a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobbly Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thank you all for your help, but I am still undecided how to go forward. The additional shock length was to achieve two things. 1) to increase the ground clearence and 2) to quicken the steering. I do not want to change shocks again when I cut the frame and pull in the forks, which will raise the front slightly too. The longer shocks are a compromise, with downsides re chain torque effects and raised C of G. Honda were not stupid, but there again the world has moved on and perhaps the only way forward for a better bike with no drawbacks is to lenghten the shocks and pull in the front end with the footpegs lowered to alighn with an ali plate replacing the lower frame rails I am curious about NJB shocks as there some good feedback in my answers. Previously I have read only poor reports, which is a pity as the shocks are cheap and Norman is a nice guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I made good expirience with NJB experts, they are much better then the betors, but miles away from falcons or even rockshocks, bur the price it's a good choice. I had betors, they are bad and leaking, Falcons are very good but often leaking and for me it's to expensive to send them to repair every year... If you want to have very good shocks and don't have look at the price, test rockshocks ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seldredg Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I'm facing the same issue regarding the shock length. I emailed Norman some time ago to see if the shocks could be shortened (rod cut and rethreaded, perhaps). Didn't hear back. How much are you going to pull in the forks? I tried a pair of 14 inch NJB experts to replace the shocks that came on my bike (long 1980 125 Honda MX shocks that were way too stiff, but the bike turned). To me the NJBs felt like they had no damping at all and made the handling much worse because the rear end sagged. I think the issue was mostly the springs were all wrong for my weight, and the difference from 15.5 inch MX shocks was drastic. I tried to buy a pair of Falcons but gave up after three months of waiting. I went back to a pair NJBs, 15.3 with different springs and like them fine for what I do (1 and 2 line rider). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trial pat Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hy TL 250 riders After riding 6 years Falcons 40cm (original is 38cm), I bought 40cm Betor aluminiums at Sammy Miller Products or tytrials.co.uk, with the softer 40lb springs. They are great and good value for the money. 150£ I think. I'm 90kg (lighter than the 102kg of the good old TL250). Oh, I forgot, the 40cm will have a problem with the original silencer, so needs another (lighter) solution. Using the same Betors but 36cm for my Bultaco M49. Keep the 4 Strokers alive! Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobbly Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Thank you all again. NJB are now off my list, so too are Falcon due to repeated issues of leaks which my option - Rockshocks appear not to suffer from. Even if they do I will be able to service them myself and cheaply too. Unless I replace the one shock that has lost all it's oil with a second hand one, I will have to buy shocks before I can ride it and work out the best way forward. The problem now is the silencer, to go longer, it is going to foul the longer shocks. I have seen a few different attempts at a new silencer and wonder what people are using and what the resultant power/power delivery is like. The CT200 options is going to be expensive(£250+) and will require a new mounts and a different pipe constructed to match up with the exhaust pipe. What other options are there, none off the shelf that I am aware of. I wait to be shown a viable alternative. Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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