nigel dabster Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Eddie - What I said is relevant and it is exactly why Vertigo have a dilemma, which market segment / segments do they aim for or can they come up with something that is sufficiently attractive to all? Which trials market segment? we have segments? Considering the total sales of JTG and Ossa (new innovative brands) and Honda uk with the new 4rt have all struggled to hit sales of nowhere near economic break even, how could vertigo "choose" a sector of an overcrowded over supplied niche market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Dabster, you have just contradicted yourself. To be innovative an invention must by definition be commercially / economically viable. To save you looking it up here is the definition of innovation "The process of translating an idea or invention into a good or service that creates value or for which customers will pay. That there are market segments within trials is so blindingly obvious I am surprised you have to ask the question. Beta, Honda & Gasgas all produce 2 variants of the same bike, priced and specified differently with the intention of appealing to different market segments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Watch and you both shall learn http://youtu.be/W2Cv5hZfOmk?t=24m16s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Watch and you both shall learn http://youtu.be/W2Cv5hZfOmk?t=24m16s What the feck were you searching for when you found this ? I love these self sufficient secret society's with no connection to the outside world, other than the tractors, diggers, glass, opticians, doctors, building materials, solar panels......the list goes on. Edited February 17, 2014 by b40rt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) What the feck were you searching for when you found this ? I love these self sufficient secret society's with no connection to the outside world, other than the tractors, diggers, glass, opticians, doctors, building materials, solar panels......the list goes on. I know what you mean . I stumbled across the village in my search for a Mecatecno parts . They worship the marque as a God , as do i Edited February 17, 2014 by gasgas249uk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Dabster, you have just contradicted yourself. To be innovative an invention must by definition be commercially / economically viable. To save you looking it up here is the definition of innovation "The process of translating an idea or invention into a good or service that creates value or for which customers will pay. That there are market segments within trials is so blindingly obvious I am surprised you have to ask the question. Beta, Honda & Gasgas all produce 2 variants of the same bike, priced and specified differently with the intention of appealing to different market segments. Now you have contradicted yourself. A delorean and a c5 were innovative as was that areil trike two wheels at the front and that enclosed bmw thingy which one of those innovations was a commercial sucess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeninety Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Jeez, over 100 posts of speculative drivel... This thread should be locked and only un-locked when official Vertigo photos or specs are published. Edited February 18, 2014 by joeninety 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Have to disagree with you there Dabster. The term innovation is frequently misused To be classed / defined as an innovative product value must be created - the item needs to be a success commercially. Products such as the Delorean, ariel trike, C5 etc cannot be innovations because they failed commercially. No matter how clever a invention or adaptation, if it is not a commercial success it cannot by definition be an innovation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Workmate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Have to disagree with you there Dabster. The term innovation is frequently misused To be classed / defined as an innovative product value must be created - the item needs to be a success commercially. Products such as the Delorean, ariel trike, C5 etc cannot be innovations because they failed commercially. No matter how clever a invention or adaptation, if it is not a commercial success it cannot by definition be an innovation. Yes you are right, the term innovation IS frequently misunderstood ... even by YOU You can innovate a process to work more efficiently within an organisation for example. There are lots of ways the term innovate / Innovation can be used. Edited February 18, 2014 by atomant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Also an innovation could be used in racial equality or political correctness but that wouldnt involve success commercial or otherwise? So, have to disagree with you there dadoff. (and prove your argument is flawed, again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Vertigo have obviously taken on-board all the helpful suggestions on this forum, first shots of the prototype :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdXXjF4bK4#t=42 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Which trials market segment? we have segments? Considering the total sales of JTG and Ossa (new innovative brands) and Honda uk with the new 4rt have all struggled to hit sales of nowhere near economic break even, how could vertigo "choose" a sector of an overcrowded over supplied niche market? How much do they have to sell to be economically viable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Vertigo have obviously taken on-board all the helpful suggestions on this forum, first shots of the prototype :- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfdXXjF4bK4#t=42 Ya bugga, I sifted through pages of petty niggles and lexical symantics for the definitive photo that we're all rooting for and you take the opportunity to 'Rick-Roll' us. Ha, sa-weeet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Dabster and Atomant, the definition I gave of innovation is neither flawed nor wrong. Of course words can have different meanings or definitions when used in different circumstances but here we are talking about bringing a new product to market (not racial equality etc) and in these circumstances a product must be a commercial success to be regarded as innovative. In fact some learned business scholars would go further and define innovation as "the first successful commercial application of an idea or invention". It reasonable follows from this that as a design ages and becomes obsolete it is no longer innovative. Ponder the following - a man goes to the doctor and says "I have a problem with my feet" The doctor replies "I am a physician, why are you wasting my time with questions about a unit of measurement" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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