trialsrfun Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 In the abscense of an enlighted answer we are going to have to email Sherco, or just assume that at the design stage they either forgot the pump or hoped that the owner would tip some 2t mix in the fuel tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 8, 2005 Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Are you 100% certain that sherco and not using an internal oil pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted July 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2005 Have a look here all types of engine explained, great for the kids. www.keveney.com Do not think it answers our three questions though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Could it be that the design of the 4t Sherco's lubrication & cooling system is absolutely right for its intended purpose World Round Trials, club events where you might be riding for between 2 & 4/5 hrs place altogether different demands on a bike than the short (but extreme) usage in a World Trial. Just a thought but if it were so should the manufacturers be producing for sale to the public something so specialised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re500 Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Could it be that the design of the 4t Sherco's lubrication & cooling system is absolutely right for its intended purpose World Round Trials, Not sure where you've got this from, can you post a link? I have a 4T and certainly won't be competeing in World Rounds on it! The trials i do comptete in however have not caused the 4T any problems either through excessive heat or due to there being no mechanical oil pump. RE500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gii Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 I'd guess that the 2 strokes are aided in their cooling by the amount of cool air that passes continually through the crankcases cooling them, the bottom of the piston, and the lower part of the cylinder every revolution, the cooling effect would be aided by the fuel in the air absorbing it's latent heat of evaporation. A good few years ago Gas Gas attempted to improve cooling by taking the water jacket down into the crankcases - it seemed like a good idea, instead the water heated the crankcases and allowed the mains to spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard wallace Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 The 4RT which has a properly designed lubrication system, which has an oil pump, suffers very much from overheating at indoor WTC events, and the same to a lesser degree at outdoor events. I would think it likely that a bigger capacity machine without an oil pump, is certainly going to be running hotter than the 4RT, and have greater problems. How can you say stuff like this. OHHH you were riding these events and had the problem ?, Don`t know how Doug , Fuji and Mark manage to ride these overheating four strokes !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downunder Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 SHercoH Maybe aircooled 4T's like the Scorpa 125/175 is the way to go! If they don't boil they can't overhead! I never seen an aircooled motor boil yet But Howard, how does the Sherco 320 get oil to the top end??? I know you know BJDownunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Pointless wasting your breath on em Howard, just rode mine at this weekends trial, managed to win the expert class, rode it all day practicing on Sat, and the event on Sunday, started well every time. On the fast six mile trail up to the sections I never even had to change down, the thing would just pull from nothing, on up hill tight trail corners in 4th gear without slipping the clutch, fan cycled on and off correctly all weekend and never once as the bike spit any coolant out. My information is fact from riding the bike over the past five weeks, it just get's better after every ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard wallace Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Ishy, Yeah I`m starting to think your right.!!!! Just annoys me that people will start believing some of these assumptions, from people that believe anything later than a Tiger Cub, is high tech. And god forbid, no oil pump !!!! it`s got to explode the first time you ride it.!!!!!!And as for the new Scorpa, with that dual exhaust, your going to need mining rights to get all the mud out of that !!!!! They DO test these things fellas, FOR YEARS. Downunder. The cam chain carries oil to the top end, and is thrown off onto a baffle plate that covers all the valve gear and rockers.It`s a roller cam so there`s far less load on the lobes as per flat tappet systems and less oil shear.I feel that a mist of oil would keep it alive. Run mine now for several outings and only changed one shim and that was by 1 thou. So there`s no sign of valve recession or rocker wear. As for those that say that it cant survive without an oil pump, your wrong. OH but don`t go pulling the pump out of your Tiger Cub, as that`s a DIFFERENT DESIGN and it will blow up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) Pointless wasting your breath on em Howard, just rode mine at this weekends trial, managed to win the expert class, rode it all day practicing on Sat, and the event on Sunday, started Edited July 11, 2005 by Webmonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted July 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 I do not think any one is knocking any of the 4 strokes but any new design is bound to be compared to everything that we are used to seeing, riding & maintaining, especially so if it has a new & unfamiliar design feature. With the Sherco & Montesa there is already a carb v injection thing going, for too long there has been nothing interesting & new on the bike front, think back to the 70s & 80s particularly at SSDt time, the variety of bikes entered & the interest shown in the mods/special bits on some of the factory bikes really added something to the sport that is now sadly lacking. MCN & TMX always had lots of pics of these special bits & to a great extent it is this that now leeps the classic & twin-shock scene so interesting. If a small company like Sherco can find a new & different way of acheiving something & getting a lead over their big Japanese competitors then good luck to them after all in competition every advantage no matter how small can make the difference. It was through detail improvements that Bultaco were so succesful for so long & could sell all of the bikes they made. An obvious concern for many of us is that the bike we buy should be totally suitable for week in week out trials use & not just for the highly specialised world events that seem to be moving ever further away from what most of us ride. Personally I welcome a greater variety of machinery in trials, how many times do you go to an event & fail to see at least one bike from each of the five manufacturers present. A friend rode the Llanfyllin trial yesterday (I could not make it has unfortunately I had to work) he told me how hot it was sounds like I missed a good trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) do not think any one is knocking any of the 4 strokes Not 4 strokes per se, just the 4T . Often by people practicing sciolism With the Sherco & Montesa there is already a carb v injection thing going I welcome the use of fuel injection and hope they develop it for future generations of Sherco's. After all, electronic fuel injection is tried and tested technology since the 1980's. Hardly anything new there. but saying that, the carb works fine and its all technology we know. An obvious concern for many of us is that the bike we buy, should be totally suitable for week in week out trials use Goes without saying.. and to date.. I have no reason to believe the 4T isnt just that. A friend rode the Llanfyllin trial yesterday (I could not make it has unfortunately I had to work) he told me how hot it was sounds like I missed a good trial. Sure was a good trial. Yellow route was spot on . It was damn hot on the top though I can tell ya.. Poor ol' Inky & Kirsty observing up there .. Matrys to the cause bless em Edited July 11, 2005 by Webmonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 do not think any one is knocking any of the 4 strokes Not 4 strokes per se, just the 4T . Often by people practicing sciolism The Mont has taken far more criticism than the Sherco. People were queuing up to knock it before it was even released and once it was out it was flayed for various 'faults', more often by people who had never ridden one. The Sherco has got off lightly compared to the poor old 4RT. (I have a 4RT but like them both) Favourite trials engine ever..?? Birkett's TYZ engined NBT special. Nothing else comes close (for me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 (edited) (I have a 4RT but like them both) Interesting comment Woody. Why did you buy a 4RT bearing in mind so much negativity was being spouted about it. It does seem that people are too willing to condemn either through jealousy, prejudice or ignorance. The only thing that does is put people off the sport. Im happy with my 4T and your happy with your 4RT. Couldn't give a damn what anyone else thinks to be honest. Edited July 11, 2005 by Webmonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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