laird387 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi, Another offroadarchive shot - this time of that man George Greenland again, seen in 1958 in an XHG Tigers event, the Priory Trophy trial, riding Des Smallshaw's very tidy Tiger Cub special. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Another superb & very interesting picture Deryk, the frame is either a special or heavily modded do you know which. Not wanting to open a can of worms here but...what would if that same bike were entered in the Pre65 Scottish, would it be allowed in? This Cub & the BSA that are on here does show that there must have been many modified or special bikes ridden back in the day. Edited January 10, 2014 by trialsrfun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Hi, trialsrfun, Sorry I knew of the bike - but not about the bike - if you know what I mean! Sadly that is the one aspect of the Kinlochleven scene that offends me the most - yes, there were plenty of 'specials' around before 1965 - I had my own share of them, and when the time came to create pre-65 trials, tried to frame the eligibility rules in such a way as to accommodate all those genuine specials - whilst excluding those cunning types wanting to incorporate more recent - but more importantly - more efficient modifications. It was not difficult we merely added the words 'replacement parts fitted must have been on sale to the public and generally available by the eligibility date.' Equally sadly the Scottish organisers knew far better than I and 'did their own thing' - and now we have a situation where I look around the Kinlochleven paddock in despair and then turn round and come home again after saying 'hello' to my old mates, but not seeing anything of interest to me. And I am big-headed enough to believe that I have a pretty fair idea what I am talking about. It wouldn't really matter if they were all enjoying themselves - but they're not - there's more bickering and back-biting than ever I have seen anywhere. It is a huge shame for the Lochaber locals who have put so much time and effort into the event historically but who seem to have little or no say in the actual running of the event. I don't want to interfere - it's being so miserable that keeps me so happy........... Edited January 10, 2014 by laird387 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 The best way I have found to "not interfere" is to keep my opinions to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Having had a second look at the above picture could the frame be a James, there are I think AMC forks & hubs so I think James with a Cub motor. I have seen someone riding a similar bike (though not the same one) in East Midlands area trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi B40rt, Had I been one of the silent majority I would have kept my opinions to myself - and not been one of the three club stalwarts who decided to organise a brand new type of trial called the 'Bigger Banger trial' to make sure we still had a form of motorcycle trials that we could ride in - then there might never have been classic trials. Equally I would not have coined the phrase 'pre-65' in my column, 'Wylde's Classic Bikes' in Trials and Motocross News, that was immediately picked up and used by clubs throughout the country. Then again - I could have kept my offroadarchive to myself, where it has been for twenty years and more - and nobody would have seen the pictures again. But then again, I may be completely wrong, and if so, why did the three books that I wrote telling the history from different points of view, of the SSDT ever sell? Who knows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Equally sadly the Scottish organisers knew far better than I and 'did their own thing' - And arguable, created one of the most successful "pre 65" trials in the world. I know most of the organisers, past and present, none of whom spend any time criticising your achievements, why do you belittle theirs ? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Hi, I have found an excellent image of a rider who was very successful with Triumph machines - to whom he remained loyal throughout his riding career - and was one of the finest sportsmen and ambassadors for motorcycling to boot, the inimitable John Giles, seen on his works Cub in the 1962 Perce Simon trial organised by the Ringwood club. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi Guy,s Title!!! Pre 65 Scottish!!!! ????NO. The Two day trial " That- Shall- Not- Be- Named!! ??? YES. Get a grip into the real world Scotland. Pre 65 title belongs to Deryk , and means what it says on the tin? Pre 65!!! Regards Charlie Pre- Scott!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Having had a second look at the above picture could the frame be a James, there are I think AMC forks & hubs so I think James with a Cub motor. I have seen someone riding a similar bike (though not the same one) in East Midlands area trials. Having taken a third look I still think it is as above, so a special then a special now. I imagine at the time there would be a steady supply of bent, broken or low price new & secondhand parts available especially if you were near the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Hi Guy's Hi Trialsrfun. You are correct at the time and working for the trade in a competition based environment. All the trials bikes we built at North Bar Garage were built out of parts or bent bikes Mostly Triumph. Although my trials Cub was straight from the factory, and with the pull the Shorey's had on Triumph, being a main dealer. my Cub was looked after and upgraded by the factory has parts broke? and they did. including a seised engine (swarf left in at the factory) forks were replaced a couple of times, speedos on a regular basis, and then that dam soul destroying energy transfer ignition? My Cub was the first one out of the factory with side points, so that was asking for trouble. The bike was loaded onto the A40 pick up on a monday morning and taken back to Triumph on a regular basis. and then picked up for the next weeks trial. Nearly a works rider treatment. The late Chris Leighfield used to tell me that he had the same treatment, and I first met Chris at North Bar Garage when he was picking up parts for his bike ,from the factory. Happy Days. Regards Charlie www.bsaotter.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Interesting tale CP, when I was first involved with classic bike trials any Cub's not fitted with Boyer ignition were of the pop'n'stop variety, people seemed to either love or loathe them. I had Villiers power which did have its own issues but now have a Cub with PVL which is superb also electronic on the 37a Villiers. If it wont start or run right why bother riding the thing, could Lucas, Wipac or whoever made those parts for the British motorcycle industry not have produced something that sparked efficiently then, was the knowledge out there at that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hi Guys, Hi Trialsrfun. Lucas made the ignition for the Cub at the time,but I remember us trying different coils from ,agricultural sources ,at the time to no avail. Yet you could pick up a chain saw and with a couple of pulls they usually started. But a chain saw did not run lights did it. So the sort of systems that the PVL etc was based upon was available then?? The old British thing at the time keep making the stuff and stock pilling it and then force someone to buy it .and until the stock was getting low or the company buying it went out of business ,why make anything better??? I had a guy email me saying he had fitted an ignition from a strimmer to his C15 BSA and it started and ran perfectly ,but it did take a while to fit the system to the bike. I have such a system in a box ,if it can find it ,and spent a few hours spare time making the parts he had told me too. I must find it out and fit to one of my C15 engines , and see if he is right. Regards Charlie ..www.bsaotter.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki250 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) And arguable, created one of the most successful "pre 65" trials in the world. I know most of the organisers, past and present, none of whom spend any time criticising your achievements, why do you belittle theirs ? He makes a good point. And riders must enjoy it as its never short on entries! We live in a free society, anyone can organise a trial. So why not host a pure pre65 event, it would be more rewarding than belittling other peoples efforts And why do people always knock modern specials, I for one get as much fun from building bikes as riding them Edited January 14, 2014 by suzuki250 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hi, Typical of the Tiger Cubs being used in Pre-65 trials in 2000, was this one ridden by one of the friendliest men ever to ride a trials Cub, Vic Burgoyne. The trial was the January Pre-65 trial organised by the Bath Classic club, to which we attracted no less than ninety-two riders. I know because not only was I there on the day - but I had spent the previous day marking out the course. Keen Cub followers will note the Comerfords alloy oil tank. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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