Tl125- Beginner Bike

[motoradler]

Greetings all,

I am currently in the market for a smaller displacement trials bike for a beginner rider, and I've recently come across a Honda TL125 that's within the budget.

I've done considerable research on this bike and the biggest drawback I've seen is the lack of power to make it competitive;

Is there anyone here with this bike who can give me some advice on this machine? Ideally I'd like to know if I could practice on it (beginner here. ) adequately and it would have littletrouble carrying me over smaller logs and ditches, and then eventually do beginner classes in the air cooled trials events.

Thanks for your trouble,

EM

[tlrmark]

They have 8 horsepower. I have competed on one for over 20 years, first with stock engine, then bored and stroked engine (175cc) and now XR200 engine. If you are not too big and heavy it will be fine to start on. Ultra reliable, low maintenance.

[motoradler]

They have 8 horsepower. I have competed on one for over 20 years, first with stock engine, then bored and stroked engine (175cc) and now XR200 engine. If you are not too big and heavy it will be fine to start on. Ultra reliable, low maintenance.

How grunty is the stock engine? I'm fairly competent when it comes to motorcycle engines but I wouldn't be that keen to get it rebored, at least straight away. Are you saying other engines of similar dimensions are able to be fitted into this frame?

Having never owned a trials bike, how much extra maintenance is typically involved? I have a 78 XL125 right now (part of the reason I fancy the TL is it is supposed to have similar engine parts), could I use the same oil and petrol (10-40W and 91) in the TL? I don't want to ruin the bike by being too cheap, but I'm a student with a tight budget so I can't get too carried away.

Thank you for your advice.

EM Edited March 7, 2014 by motoradler

[nelly1]

just have a go on it if it doesnt pull then your too heavy

[motoradler]

just have a go on it if it doesnt pull then your too heavy

Of course, I am going to see how it rides this weekend. I'm not a novice when it comes to motorbikes, but with trials I've only ever ridden modern Gas Gas 4 strokes, which I understand are vastly different to classic trials bikes, so I wanted as much information from people who've ridden them as I could.

Thanks.

EM

EDIT: I just about forgot; does anybody have any idea what the value on these is? It's in tidy condition, not fantasic but acceptable considering its a 76, and the seller is asking just under a grand for it.

Edited January 31, 2014 by motoradler

[thats_a_five]

For novice level, horsepower is almost not an issue. So much about trials is learning balance, control and only using just enough power to get the job done. The TL should be fine as a learning bike. In fact, it is better to learn on a low power bike because it forces you to learn the techniques and timing of body movements. With proper technique you will be amazed at what you can do. Once you get better and are tackling bigger and bigger obstacles, then you will appreciate the added power of a bigger engine and can get a more powerful bike.

It is entirely possible that other engines may fit. Remember that trials engines are generally built and tuned for low end torque and smooth power delivery which is very different from the high RPM horsepower of engines used on street or motocross bikes.

Remember, rubber side down and feet up! Ride on!

Sorry, I have no idea about value of bikes in NZ.

Edited January 31, 2014 by thats_a_five

[axulsuv]

Try it , Buy it , and learn trials on it ! Great little bikes , and you will amaze yourself what you can do with 8hp... It will teach you technique , not how to just power over and thru things . Making you a better rider along the way !

And Tl's will only go up in value , they all were solid bikes .

And yes you can share lubricants with your other Honda ...

Have fun , get the bike to a event , and have more FUN !!!

Glenn

[tlrider]

I've been riding a TL for over 10 years. Along with tlrmark I have done a big bore kit to 168cc and also chopped the frame to increase the steering angle, chopped the bottom frame rails and installed an aluminum skid plate and added gussets between the rear sub frame and back bone. I also made a fork brace between the top and bottom triple tree. It has become quite a capable bike with these mods, however, this does not address your question.

The two big changes you can make to a stock bike is to put a smaller front sprocket on and increase the idle jet size.

On gearing, in the States we have the K model bike, one piece head and was never road legal. In 1976 Honda introduced the S model TL125 with the two piece head and I believe it was road legal, point being the final gearing was different for the road. Stock gearing on the K model was 14/60T front and rear. I have used a 12 and a 13 on the countershaft. This increases your engine speed but does not increase your rear wheel speed much helping avoid the off idle cough and making the bike slower in the sections.

Idle jet, Honda's tend to run lean and in Trials you are often riding just above idle or from idle to WFO for a moment. The stock TL coughs under these conditions, a reason for riding a big bore as they don't cough as easily. By increasing your idle jet size you will give the engine more fuel at low rpm which will help alleviate the cough.

Those two changes and good throttle control, get a slow turn throttle, will help.

Your size and weight are not an issue. A buddy use to ride a stock TL on the Mid Atlantic Trials series 3 line which has moderate sized obstacles, we have four lines with 1 being the hardest. He is six foot three and was probably in the vicinity of 300 lbs. He could clear 16" logs with ease. As that's_a_five points out proper technique is important. Trials is about finesse; I believe in the movie 'On Any Sunday' Trials riders are referred to as the violin players, the virtuosos of motorcycling.

Have fun!

[motoradler]

snip

I see. In that light, I think this bike is probably worth what the guy is asking. And also, I probably wouldn't worry about switching engines, at least until I can get a lot more experience under my belt. Thanks for the advice.

snip

Thanks; thats good to know it'll be decent enough with rider skill, as I would like to compete at some stage.

snip

How much help would mods such as that be? If it would make a definate positive difference to the bike then it'd be worth seeing if I can get access to the campus workshop...

The TL is a 1976, but I'm not sure if it is the S model; the other thing will be, the person I'm buying it from has used it for the aircooled classes in the local trials club so it may already have had those things done. I would check in any case. I assume those numbers are just the number of teeth on each sprocket?

Would finding a slow turn throttle that can fit this bike be an issue, or is it more or less universal?

Thanks all for your advice.

EM

[thats_a_five]

I would not encourage you to do any cutting and welding of the frame until you have much more experience. I agree with TLRider about the gearing and idle jets in the carb. But get the bike and ride it "as-is" for now. Chances are the current owner has already done the gearing and carb mods.

Trust me, there is so much to learn in technique and skill building that for a while the stock bike will not be the limiting factor. Learning balance, tight turns, throttle control and riding slowly are the keys. You will be much better served to spend your time on the footpegs rather than in the workshop.

Yes, the numbers are the number of teeth on the front and rear sprockets.

Edited January 31, 2014 by thats_a_five

[motoradler]

I would not encourage you to do any cutting and welding of the frame until you have much more experience. I agree with TLRider about the gearing and idle jets in the carb. But get the bike and ride it "as-is" for now. Chances are the current owner has already done the gearing and carb mods.

Trust me, there is so much to learn in technique and skill building that for a while the stock bike will not be the limiting factor. Learning balance, tight turns, throttle control and riding slowly are the keys. You will be much better served to spend your time on the footpegs rather than in the workshop.

Yes, the numbers are the number of teeth on the front and rear sprockets.

Okay fair enough. I'll talk to the owner tomorrow and see what has been done with it, I know he has modded the seat and shocks somewhat, hoping not a bad thing.

I was taught to ride motorcycles in the first place on a GasGas 125 by a trials instructor, but I understand that bike would have been a much easier and less skill-requiring ride than the heavier Honda, correct?

Once again thank you for the advice.

EM

[thats_a_five]

The GasGas is indeed a modern bike with much better suspension, lighter weight, hydraulic clutch and disk brakes. It will definitely be easier to ride than the TL125. The TL125 has a seat which can make it easier for new riders to ride longer because they can rest their legs. Remember the TL125 is about 40 years old! Technology has evolved a lot since then.

For learning balance, tight turns and throttle control the TL125 will be fine and you will develop your skills with it. For easy lines it will be fine. As you tackle more difficult obstacles, the TL will take a lot more "body English" than a modern bike.

I ride both a 2005 Montesa 4RT and a 1974 Yamaha TY250. The Yamaha feels like a truck compared to the sports car Montesa but I am still amazed at the capability of that 39 year old Yamaha. Last year while setting up a trial, I rode the TY while my buddies were on their modern bikes. On the loop trail (which was pretty tight and technical) I kept up with them perfectly. Only when we started riding sections (and on downhills when the drum brakes were no match for their discs) did I feel that I was at a disadvantage.

FYI, I am 6 feet tall and about 240 pounds.

I was taught to ride motorcycles in the first place on a GasGas 125 by a trials instructor, but I understand that bike would have been a much easier and less skill-requiring ride than the heavier Honda, correct?

[john b]

I've ridden a TL in classics the last few years, and its great.

Bog standard, 125cc, and I think the 'lack' of power helps and it never gets you in trouble.

You have to think 'two feet ahead' as if there's a bit of a step etc you need to make sure you put the (little) power on early enough !

Is it competitive ? - I've won an easy route trial on one against modern bikes (and I'm not a good rider!!) and finished top 10 in the Nostalgia in Twinshock class (was on the easy route tho when there used to be 2 routes)!!

Great bike to learn on for basic 'classic' trials techniques

cheers

John

[tlrider]

that's_a_five is correct in not encouraging you to do any cutting and welding until you have much more experience and focus on your riding skills. That is true of my experience. I bought the bike with the big bore already done; I did the frame mods years later as my ability was exceeding the sweet little TL.

There are several brands of slow turn throttles available. I have a Domino throttle that I probably bought from B&J Racing in Tennessee, USA. They show a black plastic tube as being a slow throttle. I have an aluminum tube slow throttle so I must have gotten it elsewhere. I'm sure there are shops in your neck of the woods that would have them.

You can improve the steering on the TL by raising the forks in the triple tree by about 19mm, i.e. the top of the forks will be 19mm above the top triple tree. The TL tends to fall into the turn due to the large offset in the triple tree. To counter this weight the outside peg when in a turn which comes back to that's_a_five's advice, work on technique.

Edit:

The '76 'S' model cylinder head is made of two pieces split horizontally at the camshaft centerline. Visually the top of the head is pretty smooth vs. finned and it will have four bolts, two near each valve cap.

I think the frame serial number is TL125S-#### where the 'K' model bikes had serial numbers 10000-12000, 1973-1975 but again these numbers pertain to the states and may be different for non US market bikes.

Edited February 3, 2014 by tlrider

[motoradler]

The GasGas is indeed a modern bike with much better suspension, lighter weight, hydraulic clutch and disk brakes. It will definitely be easier to ride than the TL125. The TL125 has a seat which can make it easier for new riders to ride longer because they can rest their legs. Remember the TL125 is about 40 years old! Technology has evolved a lot since then.

For learning balance, tight turns and throttle control the TL125 will be fine and you will develop your skills with it. For easy lines it will be fine. As you tackle more difficult obstacles, the TL will take a lot more "body English" than a modern bike.

I ride both a 2005 Montesa 4RT and a 1974 Yamaha TY250. The Yamaha feels like a truck compared to the sports car Montesa but I am still amazed at the capability of that 39 year old Yamaha. Last year while setting up a trial, I rode the TY while my buddies were on their modern bikes. On the loop trail (which was pretty tight and technical) I kept up with them perfectly. Only when we started riding sections (and on downhills when the drum brakes were no match for their discs) did I feel that I was at a disadvantage.

FYI, I am 6 feet tall and about 240 pounds.

Alright, just thought I'd let you know, I had a look at the bike on the weekend; the bloody thing didn't start! XD It has an electrical problem the seller didn't mention on the ad, the HT lead and maybe the coil. Not a huge problem to fix, so long as the coil is widely available, but it did put me off a little.

The other issue I have found is, it seems a little highly priced for what it is in todays market. If the auction passes in I may make him an offer to see if he takes it, else I have my eye on a 96 Monty that looks in great condition; any opinions on them?

I've ridden a TL in classics the last few years, and its great.

Bog standard, 125cc, and I think the 'lack' of power helps and it never gets you in trouble.

You have to think 'two feet ahead' as if there's a bit of a step etc you need to make sure you put the (little) power on early enough !

Is it competitive ? - I've won an easy route trial on one against modern bikes (and I'm not a good rider!!) and finished top 10 in the Nostalgia in Twinshock class (was on the easy route tho when there used to be 2 routes)!!

Great bike to learn on for basic 'classic' trials techniques

cheers

John

Thanks for the advice; I certainly liked the look and feel of the bike but as I wasn't able to test ride it I can't say what it's like, and I'm certainly not buying a bike I haven't ridden before.

that's_a_five is correct in not encouraging you to do any cutting and welding until you have much more experience and focus on your riding skills. That is true of my experience. I bought the bike with the big bore already done; I did the frame mods years later as my ability was exceeding the sweet little TL.

There are several brands of slow turn throttles available. I have a Domino throttle that I probably bought from B&J Racing in Tennessee, USA. They show a black plastic tube as being a slow throttle. I have an aluminum tube slow throttle so I must have gotten it elsewhere. I'm sure there are shops in your neck of the woods that would have them.

You can improve the steering on the TL by raising the forks in the triple tree by about 19mm, i.e. the top of the forks will be 19mm above the top triple tree. The TL tends to fall into the turn due to the large offset in the triple tree. To counter this weight the outside peg when in a turn which comes back to that's_a_five's advice, work on technique.

Edit:

The '76 'S' model cylinder head is made of two pieces split horizontally at the camshaft centerline. Visually the top of the head is pretty smooth vs. finned and it will have four bolts, two near each valve cap.

I think the frame serial number is TL125S-#### where the 'K' model bikes had serial numbers 10000-12000, 1973-1975 but again these numbers pertain to the states and may be different for non US market bikes.

Alright fair enough, I thank you. If I do end up getting it I'll certainly try to do all that, improve it as much as I can. And yeah I think it did have the 4 bolts near the valve caps.. the other issue (which is probably inconsequential), the seller modded the frame to fit a TL200 engine in, and then put the 125 engine back in, so the frame isn't stock for the 125. The footpeg has a spring the guy put on to keep it out of the way of the kickstart lever.

Thanks all for the good advice.

EM