The Way It Was.....

[laird387]

Hi,

Recent postings as to whether an 'original' pre-65 class could be introduced into the sport drew some rather vitriolic comments from supporters - much of which, sadly, was misplaced because, in my view, life has changed so drastically in recent years and people just can not comprehend what it was like before the 'Me, Me, Me...' generation took over.

Here is a letter from the late John Roberts, who, like so many of us, spent our early years during the 1939-45 war, living under blitz bombing, rationing and generally hard conditions. Then, in the early 1950's took to trials riding - when it was definitely a very friendly pastime.

I am planning to put a lot of information from the archive about the 'Scott trial', an event that I never managed to ride in because I was involved for many years as one of the army of helpers who spent hours marking out the course, running time checks, going round after the last rider making sure nobody was stuck miles from anywhere, making sure all gates that should be shut were shut, doing repairs to stone walls if need be - generally making sure the grand folk who lived and worked in the area would welcome us back next year.....

Extracts from the letter to ORR from John Roberts, sums up a lot of 'what it was all about'.

The Scott Trial

Between the fifties and sixties I was fortunate to win Scott Spoons riding various machines including twice on Dots, Francis-Barnetts and Bultacos and once each on Ariel, Greeves, and my James special. The year I will always remember is the 1959 event on my James special that I had earlier won the National Lomax trial on Easter Monday beating Sammy Miller on the Special Test.
The James started life as a 1956 Commando Trials model which I lightened, fitting an alloy tank, Norton forks, and a Vale-Onslow 250 cylinder barrel to the 9E motor. It handled very well and with a good power spread was an ideal tool for the Scott.
I had already passed several riders and was having a reasonable ride on observation as I approached Underbanks (approximately three quarters round the
course), having just passed Johnny Brittain on his 350 Bullet, who appeared to be concentrating on observation that day.
The real hazard there was half way through the section, where riders had to negotiate a fallen tree stump.
As I attempted to jump over the obstacle disaster struck; the frame on the James broke below the head stock.
I was devastated, having only failed once before to finish in the Scott. Several spectators offered their sympathy and help, but as none had welding equipment with them, my plight seemed hopeless.
Then I spotted a barbed wire fence nearby, and with the help of a bent pair of pliers I managed to remove a length of wire long enough to loop round the frame top and through the top engine mountings three or four times, and with the use of a Villiers plug spanner as a turnkey. I made such an effective repair I made it to the finish to qualify for a finishers certificate!
That night we attended the awards ceremony at the Kings Head, Richmond. I remember driving home in thick fog, it was a long day having departed from home at 6 am.
I can recall my fiancée Pats words to this day: We must be bloody mad. Mind you, she had been standing
at Washfold Splash for many hours that day!
A week later I received a call from Garth Wheldon who, at that time was in charge of the James Comp Shop, as well as being a very accomplished trials rider. He was impressed with my episode in the Scott and kindly offered me a new frame for my bike.
As Pat and I were due to be married the following weekend, I faced the added task of persuading my new wife-to-be to honeymoon in Greet, Birmingham.
We stayed overnight in a small bed and
breakfast near the James factory not a very romantic start to married life! But it must have worked, we recently celebrated our Ruby Wedding anniversary in a much warmer climate than Greater Birmingham!
Yes, the Scott Trial holds happy memories for both of us, and my Scott Spoons will always be treasured.
I continued riding the James for a couple of years with awards in Northern nationals plus a fourth in the Northern Experts. It wasnt long before I had a call from George Denton who was in charge at the Francis-Barnett factory. My good friend Ian Williamson had put in a good word for me and after an interview at the F-B factory, in the late sixties I was invited to join the works trials team joining Ian and Mick Ransom. Happy days!

John Roberts, Stockport

Enjoy - and look forward to some interesting images to follow in the weeks to come.
Deryk Wylde

Edited February 10, 2014 by laird387

[suzuki250]

before the 'Me, Me, Me...' generation took over?

Yes, because we all know how depressing modern trials & modern pre65 trials are…

Now get those rose tinted glasses out and knock the people how still ride excellent well prepaired classic machines!

Edited February 10, 2014 by suzuki250

[suzuki250]

Some people still having fun, at A BMCA Trial

Look at those very nice trials bikes

Edited February 10, 2014 by suzuki250

[woody]

I hesitate to raise this again as it's been done to death, reincarnated and done to death again so many times... but in response to your first paragraph, I'd say it's your interpretation of what was said about an originals class that's misplaced, not the comments from people who offered their views. And as for the me, me, me brigade, granted society is not what it once was, but with respect to people who are driven to win, they all exude a me, me, me attitude. Are we going to deny that riders like Miller would push to the front of a queue, having rearranged a section to how he wanted it, so that he could ride it before some sprogger undid all his hard gardening work by rotovating their way through it. He'd expect people to just let him in, not to queue in a gentlemanly manner.

You could say that a certain amount of the vitriol you mention came from the originator of the 'originals' post as he was blaming others for failing the sport by allowing 'specials' to be created and not including a class for originals, hastening their demise. That could easily be interpreted as it's all about me, me, me as I want an award for being the best original as I can't win an award against modified bikes in the same class. This argument fell flat when he said his bike had won the Talmag against Len Hutty on his modified Matchless...

I'll say just this, trials, either classic or modern are just as friendly with just as much banter as they have always been in my experience - and I ride a mix of both over a fairly widespread area every week. Obviously, riders are human. Jealousy, envy, greed, whatever, are human attributes, therefore there will always be a bit of bitching going on, as in all walks of life, trials is no different, especially if some people want to win but haven't, in reality, got the ability. It's too easy to then look to a rival's machine as the reason he's winning and moan. Fact is, the rival would win on 'moaner's' machine. But in the main, it's banter and enjoyment.

For the big bikes, there are still trials that are more than suitable for rigids on the easy route, therefore any pre-unit springer is also capable. That's club level and national series. In all the trials I've been to I've never heard anyone griping that they want an originals class. They just ride and enjoy the bikes of their choice. The Gresford and Aqueduct Classic clubs are a prime example, where, every trial, there are a couple of blokes (father / son I think) riding two monstrous, original old bangers. They are there, every trial, on the easy route, enjoying themselves, not bothered whether they have won an award or not.

This is still, for the majority, 'what it is all about', that edict isn't confined to yesteryear (neither is cheating or me, me, me...) I find generally, the people criticising things, or telling us that certain trials aren't suitable for this bike or that bike, haven't actually attended those events - so how can they know...

[b40rt]

Ah, the good old days.

When soldiers with Post Traumatic Shock were shot as cowards.

[telecat]

And all 1500 of the Original 500 (Pre 65 make and model of your choice) are still running today!

[breagh]

Another great story Laird,really some folk you just can't stick.

Wish I was one of them,if the bike has a puncture it's on the trailer.

Though I have finished half a dozen Scotts.

My point would be the me me me generation if it really exists isn't really reflected in the trials scene.

I suggest if the trials scene was a reflection of the general population it would be brilliant.

Edited February 10, 2014 by breagh

[b40rt]

And all 1500 of the Original 500 (Pre 65 make and model of your choice) are still running today!

Bizarre comment, and your point is ?

[breagh]

You behave Ross.

And no comments when I turn up with Toni Bou's grandads original 4rt at the pre 65 either.

[sparks2]

As ever, well expressed Woody.
Did you read Philosophy at Oxbridge??
You have my respect as a person and a trials rider.

[nzpete]

Just read the post original pre 65 class. now this post. I will just quote from a Aussie mag. (our bikes are originals, not replicas and are either old racers or modified road bikes. we don't have enough power anymore because all these pr%$ks come in with all this exotic sh&* that they spend too much money on) He is talking about classic road racing but the same can be said of pre 65. That should stir things up

[telecat]

Bizarre comment, and your point is ?

There are so many "new" parts out there that many "pre 65" bikes are Younger than a few early Gas Gas and Beta's we see on Beginners Trials's.

[suzuki250]

There are so many "new" parts out there that many "pre 65" bikes are Younger than a few early Gas Gas and Beta's we see on Beginners Trials's.

And how expensive amd unpractical would the spot be if there were no new parts available?

It was all right in the 80’s & 90’s lots of parts still around, but not now

Just have a look what a rough cub engine costs or a 3TA!

With reference to the original thread: If you have a look at a few other photos, plenty of Renthal bars, marzocchi & NJB shocks...ect around in the 90’s!

These would not be eligible for the “original class” as suggested

Edited February 11, 2014 by suzuki250

[b40rt]

There are so many "new" parts out there that many "pre 65" bikes are Younger than a few early Gas Gas and Beta's we see on Beginners Trials's.

Fair enough, but as said, not sure what the alternative is ? Not convinced "pre 64 1/2" would still be alive, never mind growing, if only original bikes were acceptable.

I hate the me me me generation to, but I blame their parents and grandparents. Easy to blame someone else, isn't it ?

[laird387]

Hi,

Another image that helps to tell the story of 'how it was'.

This interesting group of trials riders in the North Cotswolds were practising together on a piece of ground above Larkstoke, where they often went - without problems..

Dave Langston (yes, Ron's brother) told me the story behind the image, years ago.

"We were all just practising together when this photographer came along, lined us all up and took the picture. Later he sent us all a copy of the print - but we did not know him." When Dave loaned me the print to scan, there were no identification marks or copyright signs on the back, so it is likely that it was just an amateur photographer out enjoying himself when he found a 'different' sort of subject. I can understand that - been there - done that, etc.

The riders are, L to R, Harold Peachey (Francis-Barnett), Ron Langston (Ariel), Dick Smith (BSA), David Langston (BSA) and John Clarke (BSA).

Enjoy.