Novice Novices & Not So Novice Novices!

[cactusjack]

Dan Williams, you need to be the Trials treasurer of the world. Some really great points and by far and away the best way to look at the future of this sport. Well done mate.

I think you touched on the point that the biggest failures are caused by someone who focuses on themselves when they are laying out a trial, or changing club rules. If everyone thought about how we can make this fun for everyone competing, then we would see more participation at the lower levels.

Great thread.

[jj65]

The reason you have riders riding the easy route and getting very low scores, is because most are riding for the the enjoyment and not the competitive element. I and a few of my friends are definitely in that group, we are all in our late forties or early fifties, take a long time to recover and don't want to injure ourselves (work next day etc etc). We all love riding when we can, help our clubs and observe too, but riding is still very important and we enjoy the social thing of riding together, the Micky taking and the pub after. Not everyone is very competitive, want to get better and win (although sometimes that does happen).

I have asked a few clubs if there could be a 50/50 route for novice/clubman (no extra marking out, just half the hardest novice route and half the easiest middle route), but they weren't interested. I have even asked to ride at an event and not be scored in the results and told I couldn't do that. I think the only way would be to not ride one section and then you wouldn't be classed as finishing.

[greeni]

Well, I think I started a great thread, with some mega input from everyone, Dan in particular, thank you all.

A friend and I only started riding Trials in November, both never ridden motorbikes before, ever!

Coming from a strong Mountain bike and BMX background, we have some idea of riding over stuff and off road.

I've done around 6 trials now and at the weekend 23/2 we rode our first clubman route ( I thought it would have a novice route, hence turning up!).

We both did ok, tackled everything and only had a few 'stunts'!

We enjoyed the challenge immensely and I began to think why people don't move up a class, hence post!

Thanks to your comments, I have opened my eyes to the 'not so novice novices'!

I must say, everyone at every trial have been really helpful, it's a great sport and at the age of 44 I wish I had started it a long time ago.

It's thanks to people who encourage beginners, set out 'dead easy' and 'fun' trials, set out novice routes that people like me would probably not 'take' to the sport, find it too difficult and give it a swerve.

For now, we are going to continue on the novice route, though will try the clubman routes when we feel like, keep going to trials every week where possible and move up to clubman after spring, hopefully !

[joeninety]

A method the club I ride uses (and various other clubs I have ridden for) different classes on the same route. For example, the white route (which is one up from beginners is the most populated route with the widest range of abilities. This route has 3 classes attached to it, noviceC, veteranC and over 60's. Riders who wish to step upto the red/blue route would then ride noviceB or veteranB but there is also an intermediate class for ex-expert riders dropping back down to something a bit less servere and for riders on their way to becoming experts.

They have also introduced 50/50 classes this year which have been a success and have taken a group of regular class winners and taken them into a class of their own...

When I was a school boy if you came within the top three of your class you had to move up to the next route, this was fine from beginners to the 'C' route but when I got upgraded to 'B' I think I rode two trials (badly) and then gave it up. Took me 20+ years to come back! Now the club is has a much more relaxed attitude to ability and classes and it is enjoyable, entry numbers are up and most look like they're enjoying themselves which at club level is what its all about.

[mags]

My wife and I had the very "off-putting" experience some of you are saying… went to a trial, found it way too difficult and won't go back at this stage.

Only had the 2014 Beta for 4 months and have trained hard as I could. Static balance is 5 mins, stopping down a slope for a rest for a 30 secs or so is doable. I have been riding motorcycles for 43 yrs this year and put over 40,000 k's on two bikes in last 2 yrs alone, I also own an enduro I push pretty hard down trails. Have my stunning 2014 Montesa Cota now as well.

Some of the sections where just plain scary… I refused to go into them for safety reasons. Very steep, dry, rocky gully with the novice way through a 2 ft wide grassy bank top with drop off.

Maybe I was a little naive thinking the novice would be achievable? I face planted twice, no injury, no bike damage. This was the first time I have ever dropped the bike including all the last four months practice (every day). People came down to help me up both times…. I was laughing too hard for first 15 secs to get back up!!! Second one I just lay there… ah, I need a rest, this is comfy, nice soft dirt! Ahhhhhh! I did 15 of the 40 sections and gave up after the second fall.

In all fairness to the club that held it… maybe they just don't get many beginner/novice at the events so don't set the sections accordingly.

So you guys (and gals) setting sections… if any beginners, can you set the tapes slightly wider, please? If its too wide for me I'll slow down and practice keeping a very straight line.

Take a beginner with you to set sections? Ask … Is there any area you can't get through you think? Is there a way around for you?

Maybe that not the way its done? Just thinking out loud…. as a beginner you tend not to feel very welcome and outta place. Same in any sport I suppose?

We invested heavily (two 2014 4t for a start) and are totally addicted to trials and am able to now afford to do it since the pic of me in my Mick Andrews trials top 40 yrs ago. I could never afford the bikes then and tried to convert a trail bike into a trials bike at 13 yrs old. My paper round didn't support a trials bike! Hehehehe

We will just ride together doing our own thing (no comps) for the foreseeable future… and loving it!

If the urge arises to hit the sections again…. I will go round with the section setters with some input for beginner class even if I'm the only beginner. If thats allowed???

Two guys I know and one of their girlfriends all purchased trials bikes recently… went to a trial and won't go back. They are very experienced trail bike riders and have now gained access to private property and ride there most weekends. Even getting a machine and bobcat in to lift logs and rocks around… Imagine that energy into a club? I have an invite to the land. They just had a disheartening overall experience of their first ever trial comp.

One other thing I would like to say as a beginner… be EXTRA social and welcoming (if not already). You can really feel outta place because sections may be too difficult and you don't even get a small achievement for the day. Can be very disheartening but social interaction from the people that seem to glide through the difficult sections could go a long way to build your spirits again.

Mags

Edited May 22, 2014 by mags

[mokwepa]

Our club offers a medal to a new commer who finishes his first trial, a nice touch. Our club consciously made clubmans easier this year to encourage new guys to stick at it. I have since moved up to intermediate s as I have progressed to a point where the easier clubmans was not challenging enough. Intermediates is a fair jump from clubmans however clubmans is now doable for most new comers. When I started a year ago, clubman was MUCH tougher and scared the p@@p out of me, but I stuck at it and made progress.

I think it is extremely important for the sport to have a VERY simple beginners line (maybe a line that the little osets can ride too, like our club does) Too many new guys quit after their first event. I think setters sometimes forget how difficult some obstacles are for a complete novice.

Stick at it however even if you take a 5 on sections you are not comfortable with. Entering events is one of the best ways to learn. Have the mind set that you are riding the sport at this stage to learn and not win. As you become more comfortable on the bike, your position will become more important and your competitive side will slowly take over.

[totty79]

I've got mixed feelings about my first and so far only trial.

My aim was to finish and get one clean, I finished and got 9 cleans so from that point of view it was a success.

However it took 4 weeks to fully recover, dragging a bike through sections is hard on your body as is crashing and I did a bit of both. In terms of learning I was given some valuable tips by observers, but I don't feel like I learnt much on the bike, after the first two laps the next two were just a case of getting through it - more endurance than skill.

If an easier route was available I'd ride it. Most of the other riders clearly weren't what I'd consider novices, scores were close between them so it seemed to work for most, and I can understand those riders not stepping up as I'd be satisfied riding at their level as a not overly challenging fun day out.

I get more enjoyment out of practicing - I ride a section or obstacle repeatedly until I can clean it twice in a row, when I'm knackered I can go home without feeling like I've quit and I can both walk and type the next day. I also don't need to do it at specific times or drive for hours.

I'll try again after the summer, I'm not going to enter without giving it a good go but I'm also not risking an injury before a holiday.

[smarty156]

Clubs in our part of the country (South East) put on regular "Beginners & Wobblers" trials. These are aimed specifically at new riders - the sections could be ridden on a trail bike. It's purely to get people into the sport and to get them some practice and understanding of what a trial is. Maybe look to see if there are any of these type of trials in your area rather than starting off on a normal club trial?

The other thing is ask. If you want help or advice on how to ride a section most people are more than happy to help.

Finally, if a section scares you, miss it out. Wait until you're confident/skilled enough to tackle it.

I've been an expert rider, riding Nationals Centre champion etc. However, now I'm over 40 I ride the over 40 route (Intermediate sections) as I just want to enjoy myself, especially having not ridden for the last 5 years. Now I've ridden a few events I want to get fit again and move back up to Expert before the end of the year. If I do and I come across a section that I don't like the look of (chance of breaking me or the bike), I'll take a 5 and move on. It's called being sensible. Don't be frightened to take a 5 without attempting the section. It's not uncommon.

I do find sometimes that people who have ridden bikes a lot on the road or even motocross or grasstrack think that trials will be easy. It's not. That's why we like it - it's as much a challenge between you and the section as it is the other riders.

[totty79]

I haven't seen anything beginners or wobblers in the North East, I have considered traveling to some in the North West.

I'm yet to see anything below expert that looks scary, a little daunting maybe but not scary. I'll take a 5 if I'm confident that I don't have the required skills, I did it twice on one section after two failed attempts so I do have some sense, just not great judgement.

Trials looks really easy when done by someone with adequate skill. It's only when I try to follow them that I discover how hard it really is.

Edited May 23, 2014 by totty79

[mokwepa]

Prior bike experience certainly helps but trials riding is so unique that it only helps to a certain extent. Ive been on bikes since I was 5 (32 now) and had to learn how to ride all over again when I started trials a year ago. I have put in a immense amount of training in that year and was very surprised how fast I progressed. Trials is not easy and peg time is needed however it is difficult to stay motivated if you are falling or 5ing all the time. A super easy class is the key to bringing guys back for another try, I reccon but persistence from the rider is also needed to work through the basics of trials riding. It is challenging but thats why we do it.

[heffergm]

Here's my 2p from someone that only recently started riding trials (and hasn't even done his first event yet). I started riding dirt bikes at 12, spent a lot of time on street bikes, a short period road racing, then got back into dirt bikes at 36 or so (I'm 38... good grief, when did that happen).

I started racing hare scrambles and enduros: I was in no way prepared for the beating I was about to take. Over the last 2 years or so I worked incredibly hard on conditioning and riding skills to be able to deal with 3 hours of hell in the New England woods. Had I been less of a masochist, there's no way in hell I ever would have continued racing, it's that brutal. And the fact that there's no 'easy' course for real beginners puts a serious dent in what I think could be much larger attendance numbers (although despite this, NETRA is probably the biggest sanctioning body in my area). Unless you grow up doing this sort of thing, the chances of you getting involved later in life are near zero unless you're really looking for a challenge.

When my local trials club offered a 'cross-training' event, I figured I'd check it out. They were providing bikes, and no one should ever pass up a ride on someone else's bike, especially if you have no ties to them and can't possibly be held responsible for any resulting damage! After riding the morning trials clinic then working the event, I'm totally hooked. I went and bought a bike the next week or two, and I've been practicing in the woods ever since. The enduro bike is gathering dust.

Here's my takeaway from this experience: a little outreach goes a long way. The other guys (mostly enduro-focused) that were at the clinic all had a blast. One of them I know also went and bought a bike and rode his first event recently. Everyone we met was smiling and helpful. I'm looking forward to my first event in a few weeks. I think if NETA (the org in my region) keeps up with this sort of thing, new ridership should increase. They're also offering a 'ride but don't compete' entry where you ride the loop but don't worry about getting scored. I'll be competing, but I think it's great that they offer it. So in exchange for one hour of 'community outreach' cross-training, they got 5 guys to work the event, and for sure two new riders.

After a lot of practice on the trials bike, I can say it's just as brutal as enduro. If clubs aren't offering some seriously easy sections for beginners, you're just asking for people to quit. I'm looking forward to the punishment... when I'm not awful I'll just move up a class, but if the beginners loop isn't dead easy, you can't move down, and that's a bummer if you find it hard.

[dadof2]

Totty79, you don't say exactly where you are in the north east but you could try some of the Cumberland Club or Lakes Grass track club trials in Cumbria.

For me, an issue is consistency of section hardness. Sometimes the clubmans course is fairly easy, other times it is hard and contains risks.

I am happy to attempt quite difficult obstacles and a lack of challenge can make the trial a bit boring. However what I do not like are obstacles either hard or easy where the penalty for failure is likely injury. Give me a 4 or 5ft step in a gully and I will attack it, expect me to ride onto the top of a 2ft wide boulder 4 ft above sharp rocks on either side and I will ask for a five. Quite a few share this view and avoid otherwise good trials because they know there will be 3 of 4 risky sections they don't want to do.

At a couple of trials I attended recently some on the easy / beginners course had minders, not because the intended route of the section was hard, but because if they toppled sideways they would have a nasty fall down a rock face or off a river bank.

[mags]

This thread has given me some encouragement thats for sure. Seems like some clubs really know the value of newcomers!

Was at my favourite ride spot yesterday and another trials guy came over for a chat. Between my wife and I, and him, we were the only (3) trials bikes amongst 100 motocrossers and enduro bikes on the property.

He said " I saw you in the creek bed earlier and you have great static balance, I can't balance stopped like that yet and I've been at it for 9 months!"

I said "Thanks man! You climb creek banks like I'd love to…"

My wife said later " There you go! A compliment from another trials rider hey! Might need a bigger helmet!" Ahahahahahahaha!

About an hour later any thought of a bigger helmet was quashed! I was doing some vertical creek banks about 3 ft, got front over but back wheel spun on top edge and put me on my a***… back in creek! And she saw it!!! Bugger!!

Mags

Edited May 26, 2014 by mags

[mokwepa]

Haha....thats trials for you

The compliments and good feeling after doing something "right" is often all it takes to keep me motivated.

[dan williams]

Talking to the new riders is something I do as much as possible. It's the best way to learn, for me. When the rules were changed here one of the points used to justify it was, "Adults don't want to ride with kids." I call bullocks! I've spent years talking to new riders young and old and the prevailing opinion was they loved it. The kids loved the encouragement and praise from the adults who were struggling with the same obstacles and they really loved it when they could beat the adults at their own game. The adults loved it because it's fun to watch the little guy improve and struggle and cry in frustration only to beam when they finally achieve. Lifelong friendships are made that way.

I rode beginner class with Geoff Aaron. How cool is that. Later when Geoff or Ron Commo would take the beginners around I would often check in to see how things were going since I was a club officer. The look on the faces of the beginners both child and adult were priceless. Here's this guy they read about in magazines and see on TV holding their front wheel and teaching them how to balance and taking it every bit as seriously as the rider or cheering them on when they finally get around that tight corner. It was a magical time in New England.

Greeni you started a good thread. For you new riders who are frustrated you have a voice. Get involved with the local club and push for the changes you need and if they don't happen then make your own club. Another of the things I pushed for when I was an officer of NETA was equality. From the top expert to the newest beginner you have a vote. It's your club. From that I believed in the wisdom of the membership. Several times there were proposed changes that marginalized new and young riders usually starting with something innocuous like only mailing a single copy of the newsletter to a family instead of one to each member. On the surface it again seems like a good way to save money but it starts the slippery slope of saying kids/wives/etc aren't members in full. If you are expected to pay membership dues and work and event for end of year credit you get all the benefits along with the responsibilities.

Be wary of clubs that only listen to "wizened" old men. By all means learn from them and ask them why they do what they do. You may be surprised at the depth of their thought processes and how much they learned from those that went before them. But be wary of those who are not willing to accept the challenge of justifying their actions. If they blow you off with, "Because it's the best way" they are just afraid of change. One of the hallmarks of the NETA meetings was the give and take where you proposed a rule and really had to defend your reasons to show you had thought it out. Democracy in action, good stuff.

Edited May 26, 2014 by dan williams