Which Bike Again - Sorry But My Requirements Are Unusual

[totty79]

I've seen loads of these threads and didn't want to start another but after reading them I didn't find an answer as my requirements are a bit unusual.

I have tendon issues in my hands that cause pain and once inflamed can cause trigger finger. This can make clutch control less precise than it could be, but provided I don't ride too frequently or have to work the clutch excessively it's manageable. Although it was only a minor inconvenience on the day my left hand has not yet fully recovered from last Sunday so I've decided not to ride today.

I've only done one trial so perhaps I need more bike time before I can make an informed decision on what bike to buy next but what I think I need is a docile slightly lazy to rev motor that's difficult to stall, has loads of off idle torque and a light clutch. (Although they're fun I've never got on with peaky motors in any bike)

I have those characteristics already in my 99 Gas Gas 321, but it's heavy and it has an excess of power once the revs rise. If I use 1st gear the revs have to rise at times and it's difficult to be smooth without slipping the clutch but some of this might be nerves after a couple of crashes, if I use 2nd I have better control and results but I need to use the clutch more on the tightest bits.

From what I've read about newer bikes a 200 is the best fit, possibly with a flywheel weight. 250's seem to be considered peaky, 300's are similar to what I already have but less docile, 125's are often described as needing clutch work.

I expect to only ever ride the easy route.

Budget up to £2500 but I don't want to pay more than I need to, if a £1500 bike and a £2500 bike have the same weight and engine characteristics I'd take the £1500 one. I'm reluctant to pay extra for cosmetics and minor mechanical/material upgrades that I won't notice.

Does any of this make sense? Do you agree that a 200 would be best? Do bikes get lighter year on year or is there an age range or particular model I should look for? Is an upgrade of obvious benefit or should I stick with the 321 for longer? Anything else I should consider?

[cabby]

I can't ride my bike at all without using the clutch, however, on my partners 125 I could probably ride a whole trial without using the clutch. All depends what level you're riding at I guess if you think using a 125 needs a lot of clutch.

[guys]

Have you thought of reducing the gear ratio on your final drive?

For instance 9 or 10 teeth at the front in stead of 11 and 44 teeth on the rear in stead of say 41 or 42?

And learn to mostly control your speed with the rear brake, instead of the clutch, at very slow sections, in other words learn to be sensitive with your right foot.

Something else that might interest you: I've adjusted the idle speed on my 4RT reasonably high, at about 1100 to 1200 rpm and I can put the front wheel against a tree with the bike in first gear and it won't stall.

(this is of course without my weight on the bike)

Although the idle speed is reasonable high, I can ride very slow only using my rear brake... (this also reduces engine braking as feared by most 2-stroke fanatics

[dan williams]

The above suggestions are spot on. Also worth noting is some clutches like the Beta use heavier springs than necessary. Lighter springs can help with the tendonitis though you may get some slip in top gear. A 200 with a reworked clutch sounds perfect for you.

[guys]

The above suggestions are spot on. Also worth noting is some clutches like the Beta use heavier springs than necessary. Lighter springs can help with the tendonitis though you may get some slip in top gear. A 200 with a reworked clutch sounds perfect for you.

The 4RT clutch also can cope with 2 springs less, without any negative side affects I'm told. (If you see the gigantous size of it, it isn't hard to believe)

That said, the clutch on a 4RT is standart already reasonably light in my opinion.

Edited March 15, 2014 by guys

[totty79]

Thanks for the replies.

I've also had a 125 recommended elsewhere, as they're quite common I might be able to get a go on one. I don't ride anything that you need to launch at.

I did reduce the final drive ratio slightly to 10/42 but I could go much further. My rear brake is very weak so fine control of it is difficult, I need to fix that then I'll give it a try. I also find the tiny pedal and restrictive boot lead to me only using it on descents. I've played with the idle several times to get a balance between crawling speed and ease of stalling, but I haven't involved the back brake.

I'm yet to need 5th or 6th gear so lighter springs may work for me. I've also seen guides to removing a pair, is that advisable?

[smalley250]

A rekluse clutch would be the ticket for you but i dont believe they make them for trials bikes.

Ive had GasGas 300 then went to GasGas 250 and finally back to GasGas 300 Racing and can honestly say the 300cc is way way smoother than the 250cc as the 250cc is snappy and the 300cc is constant power and not to much. The 300cc bikes i just put slow action throttle on and 10 tooth sprocket, however the 250 i did that and low compression head plus flywheel weight but it still was not as smooth as me current bike.

Ive been told asprin can help with arm pump not sure if this would help you but worth a shot.

[totty79]

I hadn't heard of Rekluse, interesting reading and I'm sure it would help.

I've read a few similar comments on 300's, I'm inclined to rule out a 250 but keep a 300 as an option. With more practise I may get away with reduced clutch usage on a 300, I've also considered a switchable Rev limiter as a safeguard.

DRs have advised me to use anti inflammatories, I prefer the physio advice of stretch and ice, but exercising the finger extending muscles has provided some relief and left my hands less clenched at rest.

[zerorev3rev4]

would rubber mounted bar mounts help like on mx bikes ,i think it would cause less stress and vibration through the hands ,, just a thought

[totty79]

Nice thought, but I've never ridden a bike with them so I don't know how it would feel, I do use a foam cover on the clutch lever on two of my bikes.

[taffe]

Hi totty, [its strange how few people use a name on this forum???] , anyway, I had the trigger finger after I started riding my "07 125/200, down from a 250 Techno.This was in my right hand though. This bike was set up with flat slide carby and pulled like the powers. For the bike I re-jetted the carby and retarded the ignition, now its a joy to ride. For the finger....the GP prescribed drugs, [packets and packets of them in the first script] i did not use them but found more natural remedies on line, and I also wore a Velcro wrist support [whilst riding] for many months. Now no more tendon problems.Good luck.

Cheers Taff

[sirdabalot]

Owned most makes of modern trials bike, currently on Gas Gas. If you have to change bikes a Beta may suit you, I had a 200 and 250 Evo and preferred the 250 to the 200. My reasons for suggesting a Beta are because they have a very low first gear when fitted with standard sprockets. I found I could ride sections on the throttle with little clutch use, leave the flywheel weight on and the bike is very forgiving, trying to stall it was difficult. Don't forget to fit a slow action throttle.

[telecat]

I would suspect a Beta 4T would do the job. I'm not sure what the Standard clutch is like but most of the ones up here seem to ride in the manner you describe. The Standard ones seem to not be too aggresive but do a good job for a "clubman" who likes to ride without using the clutch that much. I could suggest that on a "Pro" Gas Gas, Ossa TR and the Jotagas, you can also fit the large clutch reservior which can ease the effort made.

[0007]

I hadn't heard of Rekluse, interesting reading and I'm sure it would help.

I've read a few similar comments on 300's, I'm inclined to rule out a 250 but keep a 300 as an option. With more practise I may get away with reduced clutch usage on a 300, I've also considered a switchable Rev limiter as a safeguard.

DRs have advised me to use anti inflammatories, I prefer the physio advice of stretch and ice, but exercising the finger extending muscles has provided some relief and left my hands less clenched at rest.

Vitamin B6 sure helps me out with Teno and carpal tunnel, just don't overdose on the stuff, just take the recommended amount

[nigel dabster]

I dont think theres a perfect answer to your question, its probably how you set up any bike more than anything else.

Any 2 stroke will be the same, as if you soften a big motor the gas gas 300 will have mountains of torque and can really rev so would give you great range in each gear?

I had a go on a beta 4t 250 yesterday and you can ride really low down in 2nd which would work.

The only thing against a 4rt would be getting a decent one for your money and the tickover being fairky high.

The unpopular 280 softened up may give gret value for money.

My thoughts fwiw is you will have to spend time on setup whatever bike.

Just to confuse things I wouldnt rule out 2t 250's as most can really rev so you get a long range in most gears.