wayne509 Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Really do quite fancy a 2014 4RT but folk keep informing me they have no grip in the mud. Is this just a myth? Half of them probably haven't ridden one. Is the new bike better than the old bike? Really is an important factor as up here in Scotland riding conditions are often boggy and muddy. I went from a SR 280 Scorpa which I loved to a Tr280 Ossa. The ossa is a great bike but just feels too light in the front end for me. I am not an expert rider and just really do the clubman route so don't really need the lightest most flickable bike out there and prefer the more stable feel of the scorpa ( even though it was more tiring ) I rode a 2008 4rt last week and it was great and have someone willing to give me a play on his 14 bike but it is dryer here now so would appreciate any honest opinions on rear grip. Perhaps I should also mention I am almost 18st so if body weight helps I'm sorted Edited April 22, 2014 by wayne509 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabby Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 If its wobblers b you ride you'll be fine, if it's wobblers a, then I think it takes a special rider to hustle those things about....I suspect you're no breagh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 I think the myth is exaggerated . I've ridden up muddy climbs where others got stuck or only made it half way. It could have been my lucky day or my technique was spot on for once. Anyway, as usual the bike isn't the largest deciding factor, the rider is. Check out these guys on their 4RT's: http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/50567-kinki-champions-tomoyuki-ogawa-player-2014-all-japan-tournament-trial/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warby beta Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Sometimes it's like riding on Velcro and sometimes it like riding on ice. In my case it's most likely the muppet at the helm is at fault!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 If you clutch it, a lot and give it too many revs like a 2 stroke - I find it spins out and hard to regain the traction I'm trying a different approach now and I have slowed the bike by gearing it right down to a 9/42 and i just leave the clutch alone and ride it like the old twinshock days,no touching the clutch Dunno if it works, but I find it better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleanorbust Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Some years ago I attended a 4rt test day where Dougie Lampkin and Sandiford supported riders were looking after the punters. The locations was a grassy hillside slicked up by a steady drizzle. Along with many others, I couldn't make much of the bike and as one of the expert riders helped to pull me up one of the cambered slopes he said "yeah, they don't actually grip too well on mud". That was all I needed to know. Been happy on a two stroke ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) Some years ago I attended a 4rt test day where Dougie Lampkin and Sandiford supported riders were looking after the punters. The locations was a grassy hillside slicked up by a steady drizzle. Along with many others, I couldn't make much of the bike and as one of the expert riders helped to pull me up one of the cambered slopes he said "yeah, they don't actually grip too well on mud". That was all I needed to know. Been happy on a two stroke ever since. It's funny how the people that say they don't grip, are the ones (that ride 2T), have a quick go on a 4rt, have never owned one of the newer bikes , it's never the owners that have learnt to ride a 4T. There are plenty who say they grip really well, I think you could say the same for most bikes, surely it mainly depends on who's riding it. If you want a bike that grips, buy a beta 125, but if you are 18 stone..... You'll love the 4rt and as long as your feet are on the pegs, you'll get plenty of grip, main thing is to do what Johnnyb and the rest of us wobblers do, gear it down with a 9/42 sprocket and leave the clutch alone as much as possible, it doesn't need the 2T style. Edited April 22, 2014 by jj65 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 They grip as well as 2 strokes, its just a different way of finding it. You'll learn a lot on the soft peaty scottish moors. If you give it time, you'll love it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 Quote "I went from a SR 280 Scorpa which I loved to a Tr280 Ossa. The ossa is a great bike but just feels too light in the front end for me." If you like the Ossa for other reasons, why not slow down the front end? Here are some things you could try. 1) Turn your rebound damping to max with the clickers, even increase the compression damping some. 2) Drain and refill the forks with heavier oil, if clickers don't do enough 3) Get different pegs that are farther forward or move the mounts forward if possible. 4) Get a 13mm thick lead number plate (just kidding) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 They grip fine just different. As said above ride on the throttle not clutch. Hang over the back and believe they will grip and they do. If you use the clutch - build up the revs then keep it smooth and let it out steady. Once you have momentum ease off and ride it on the throttle -easy!!/ One thing I have noticed is that tyres last longer as you are not spinning and burning. Also found same technique works n TLR so must be a 4 stroke thing. What ever you do don't spin the motor and drop the clutch halfway up a climb like on a 2T as you will be going backwards. Old stylie does it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted April 22, 2014 Report Share Posted April 22, 2014 (edited) On greasy grass / mud between limestone rocks I found the 4Rt gripped better than my gasser. Just copy Bou's technique he usually outgrips the strokers. Edited April 22, 2014 by dadof2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 Having ridden a TLR250 for many years (& modern 2 strokes), I can say that in my opinion a four stroke does seem to offer more grip, but it needs to be ridden in the 4 stroke style as said above, revving & clutching all the time is not the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross brown Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Last Sunday, we had the first real rain of winter here (Southern Hemisphere). 2 4RTs and an Ossa out practising "S" turns on steep slippery farm hill sides. My '07 4RT has a 44-tooth rear sprocket. The '09 Repsol also was also using a 44 sprocket. My rule of thumb is 'if it is slippery, then never select 1st' as I will spin the wheel and lose traction. However, I suspect this is a rider induced weight too far forward issue, rather than anything intrinsically poor about the 4RT. Just watch how far back Fujigas and Tony B get their bums (actually siting/touching the rear guard) sometimes. Anyway, last Sunday on these slippery slopes I was in second gear clutching during the turns while the Repsol was in 1st with little or no clutch. It's all about the rider! For me, 2nd gear with clutch is magic (clutch only at near-standstill pace at the apex of the turn while I got my weight back and down, elbow up, and weight moved to the outside peg). 3rd gear is for wonderful to-die-for traction without spinning on long hill climbs. Now this is one 4RT owner's generalisation, but compared to our smooth OOssaa riding friend, I'd say the 4RT's (with 44 teeth at the rear) are being ridden a gear lower than the 2Ts ie. second gear on the 4Rt where the Os280 would be in 3rd. Picture below is proof-positive that I'm not getting my weight back far enough or low enough. No traction marks at all on the seat. Just mud where there should be skid marks! Edited April 23, 2014 by ross brown 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian640 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) As an owner of a 2014 4RT I'm still figuring the gripping ability out. The only problem I've found grip-wise is with greasy (grass-free) steep banks with no run up. This is based on experience in recent trials. That said this isn't consistent - in a recent trial I fived one section with such an obstacle the first three laps then cleaned it on the last lap. All of which implies it's all down to the rider. A local expert, long-time 4RT mounted, advised me to give the 4RT 6 months to get used to it. But I'll be trying a 42T rear sprocket tomorrow (can't remember what I have on the front but it's one tooth down from stock) then switching from the stock Dunlops to Xlites in a few weeks time. Also considering a fast-action throttle. I also did a comparison with my mate's new Sherco 300 after my last trial - found it much better in terms of grip, causing me to question my purchase (I had a Sherco previously). But then on the same section in the trial I did better than he did on my 4RT, and he's the better rider. Like I said, still figuring it out. I'll report back Edited April 23, 2014 by ian640 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted April 23, 2014 Report Share Posted April 23, 2014 My mates had Beta Evo 300 and they were amazing at gripping in all conditions. One of them had a Repsol 4rt n loved it. Seems the trick is like Bou does, big revs then go n shut off n let over ride do the work. On another note try riding 1st gear and not using clutch at all no finger over lever, we did this on sections where we were hill climbling in 2nd n 3rd and failling yet did it in 1st with no clutch did it easy. From this i try and us my clutch alot less n find loads more grip, nerving i grant it but works for us novices/ inters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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