Why Did They Fail?

[dadof2]

The FIM minimum weight limit got me wondering, what is it makes a trials bike manufacturer a success AND commercially viable.

Greeves, Bultaco, Montesa (original) Ossa (original) Merlin, Mecatecno, SWM, Aprillia, Yamaha, SWM, Suzuki and probably a few more that don't immediately spring to mind all went bust or pulled out of trials despite producing decent and in some cases WTC winning bikes.

What went wrong? why did they fail? What lessons can the newer manufacturers in the sport learn from others past failings?

Edited April 24, 2014 by dadof2

[lineaway]

https://data.mises.org/daily/1929/A-Spanish-Entrepreneur-vs-The-State Aprilia changed directions and Yamaha has always been around.

[breagh]

I would add the sport isn't promoted.

Said it before Trials is a secret society the general public knows nothing about.

We've the biggest trial in the world up here in a few weeks.

Unless you are active in trials you wouldn't know about it.

We're worse than the masons.

[b40rt]

SWM didn't fail according to its owner Pierto Sironi, government and unions were placing to many obstacles/restrictions. He then built a success electronics company.

Edited April 25, 2014 by b40rt

[Guest tobeee]

I would add the sport isn't promoted.

Said it before Trials is a secret society the general public knows nothing about.

We've the biggest trial in the world up here in a few weeks.

Unless you are active in trials you wouldn't know about it.

We're worse than the masons.

You've pretty much covered all the reasons there! Our secret handshake is the gentle squeeze of someone else's bike's clutch - we all do that.

[twinnshock]

Bultaco, Montesa (pre Honda) and Ossa were caught up in the financial crisis that Spain suffered after Franco died in 1975 and over the next few years changed to a democracy. Quite complicated and I could write quite a long piece on this but in short the factories were over staffed (government policy) and subsidised. As the government changed the subsidies were removed so factories tried to cut staff to affordable levels which lead to strikes and other industrial disputes. In 1978/79 Bultaco had full order books but workers would not allow bikes to leave the factory. Customers after a while cancelled orders.. The rest as they say is history.

Stuart

Edited April 25, 2014 by twinnshock

[fantic240motor]

You've pretty much covered all the reasons there! Our secret handshake is the gentle squeeze of someone else's bike's clutch - we all do that.

Someone did that to my bike on Sunday... does that mean I'm now a member???

[atomant]

Strangely I don't think the sport being promoted makes much difference at all. In fact, I think the WTC, the window to the world of top level trials, has a detrimental effect due to the costs of competing in it with the financial drain it has on the machine manufacturers and sponsors. The money could be better spent elsewhere.. and that's another debate

I think this is more likely to be the issue. You mentioned that there were a lot of manufacturers in a relatively small market and therein lies the problem. People complain about the cost of a trials bike and yet there isn't that much money in it for the manufacturers, if you take into account what it takes to design, develop and manufacture a trials bike. This is the field I work in ( albeit not motorbikes) and the costs are very high these days even with overseas manufacture.

The thing is, just building a good trials bike isn't enough. The business model of the company producing it also needs to be innovative to ensure its longevity through financial success. Sounds pretty obvious but sadly often overlooked

And that leads me onto to one final thing. The Spanish are passionate about trials and therefore over the years I would suggest that some Spanish money has gone into it with the heart and not the head.. often a recipe for financial ruin.

Edited April 25, 2014 by atomant

[breagh]

Mmmn,you've got to get a decent volume to make things work.

Kind of agree that the WTC is maybe not a brilliant shop window.

And all the rest.

Speaking from personal experience pushing it at grassroots does make a difference.

[cleanorbust]

I agree that historically trials as a sport which may appeal to the public at large has not been promoted much at all. Question is, is that a bad thing? By not promoting itself the sport has ridden ebbs and flows of popularity to reach its current natural level.

I recall being horrified to see that Argos were starting to sell motorised bikes/quads for kids - all well and good until you consider how many people would bother to seek permission to use these responsibly on private land, as opposed to letting rip in the local woods or "waste land" creating public negativity which spreads itself to responsible trials riders who do everything by the book so endangering land permissions we have spent years in nurturing. A manufacturer led push to sell more trials bikes to the uninitiated public could have a similar effect. Yes, clubs could promote trials responsibly but doing so on a scale which would significantly increase sales has never really been part of the culture, and some would say that we as riders, as opposed to manufacturers, are fine with that.

I think that loss of land fuelled by government-led public distaste for leisure activities which use fossil fuels or are perceived to disturb the countryside, rather than reduced sales, will ultimately do for trials if anything is going to.

[guys]

I really agree with that article that lineaway posted. Governments (who contribute nothing to the Gross National Product) keep making regulations to make everything fair and wonderful but ultimately they just strangle the producers.

That may be partially true, but when things get bad, when failing is almost inevitable, it's often the governments who they turn to for financial support.

I think some Trial manufacturers in the 80's, were taken over by the government because otherwise they had to close.

In the 80's there was a economical crisis all over Europe, so customers didn't have to much money to spend on an relative expensive hobby like trials, I think thats one of the main reasons why they failed.

Governments do contribute (inderect) to the G.N.P. by providing work for private company's, for instance road works etc.

And there may be to much regulations but they are there because some company's had terrible work conditions for instance,

Just look at the bank crisis: Who gave their employees astronomical bonusses and who invested in crappy stocks? And who did they turn to when they were up **** creek?

And in Belgium, lots of MX circuits, for instance one where we held a couple of trials each year, had to close, just because neighbours kept complaining about too much noise, they took there complaints to court and now its closed. This had nothing to do with the government.

Edited April 25, 2014 by guys

[jon v8]

I'm very glad that trials is such a small sport in terms of other pastimes - we would never cope with football type crowds.

Slightly off topic,from the last post about the loss of venues to MX riders, I've never understood why the bikes aren't quieter,there is no need at all to have noisy exhausts. Excess noise is about the only complaint most people can come up with against MX,no other problem,and its not like killing foxes etc that the hunting mob have to deal with or justify.Shut the bikes up,problem solved - well,apart from stewardship schemes taking land....

[guys]

I agree on the noise levels of motor sports. ALL motorized sports would bennefit from lower noise levels.

[2stroke4stroke]

I was always quite happy with trials not being that well known and have been saved from penning anything by cleanorbust who has succinctly summed it up. A low profile is not a bad thing. But we do now seem to be suffering from individuals filming themselves using a trials bike in an urban environment doing what previously was done on pedal cycles - that will lead to problems.

[breagh]

A few of you seem to be saying as much we don't want any new riders?

I've said this before too,there's plenty out there want to ride trials, they just dont know about it yet.

Getting there though,last AMCA club trial up here had about 100 riders.