Hawkstone Park

[Andy]

Keep the feedback coming folks. This was a first for the organisers and feedback helps make it bigger and better next year.

I know the toilet thing was a problem, but the number of people that turned up who hadn't pre-booked was way more than they expected. It didn't help that people were stealing toilet rolls from them either...

[boofont]

Lastly I hate criticising observers god knows I have spent enough time doing the job but perhaps a briefing before the event would help I saw quite a few glaring errors in marking

Yes, I too noticed some errors. One of the Sections I was at saw repeated missed dabs.

[james111089]

i also thought there would be more trade stands , they cant really call it a trade village with what 8 stands

James

[gordon zola]

Felt sorry for Laia Sanz when complaining about getting a 2 when she clearly only dabbed once she was dismised with the usual brit abroad thing of shrug of the shoulders and a look of ****y foreigner and a girly to shouldn't even be allowed. It's a dificult job I know and consistancy is the key, Cricketers acept that umpires make a mistake every now and again. Some go for you some against, it ballances out in the end.

[kinell]

Observers are human and we all know that humans can and do make mistakes now and again. It can't be helped, unless each section is video'd and a slow motion action replay is viewed before the next rider enters the section

I was at section 3 on lap 1 when Grimbo cleaned the section, the crowd cheered but then started booing the observers when they asked him to ride it again. The Observer tried to explain that he had the option of a 5 or another attempt but the crowd wouldn't let him get a word in! Grimbo didn't look too concerned and cleaned it again (thankfully!). The cheers from the crowd were even louder the 2nd time round but I couldn't help feeling that some of them were sneering at the Observers as though they were the evil enemy

Difficult job, not one that I would like to do at a club event so give them some credit for having the balls to speak up when needed...

[atomant]

With reference to observing, I too saw numerous missed or incorrectly apportioned points being awarded. In many cases, it was merely too difficult for the observer to see from the position he/she was in. When you got a 1000 or so pairs of supporters eyes around a section, all dabs will be spotted. Even the commentator on section 15 spotted a dab and announced it over the tanoy only to find the observer/s hadn't and therefore the rider went through clean.

On the rules, as Dougie has already asked for, the ACU must adopt the FIM rules to be consistent in Europe. If the ACU have a valid case to keep it as it is.. I would like to hear it.

[jonty]

Apparently the number of trade stands was limited by the organisers to 15.

This must have included the burger vans etc.

[bikespace]

Lastly I hate criticising observers god knows I have spent enough time doing the job but perhaps a briefing before the event would help I saw quite a few glaring errors in marking

Yes, I too noticed some errors. One of the Sections I was at saw repeated missed dabs.

The observers received a CD showing the rules before the event.

There was also a fairly lengthy briefing on Saturday at 1430 for observers/timekeepers/punchers/marker-uppers/everybody.

All manner of questions were asked/answered. It wasn't cut short.

Then the observers met at 0830 on Sunday and were able to ask questions.

If there are still problems, then it's down to human error or bad eyesight.

One (or three in some cases) observer will never spot everything that a crowd of 1000 will spot.

I was timekeeping on our section. I spotted a few missed dabs, but it's not fair for me to pint them out - there were three observers and it's the same for everyone.

For those that remember section 8 - Graham Jarvis received a roar from the crowd when he got the first clean of the day (soon to be duplicated by Dougie, and were the only two cleans of the day). Well for those that were close by, they might have noticed that Graham leaned on the tree a few yards before leaving the section, and he definitely got benefit from it.

Why is it that most of the observers seem to be over 60? Because no other bugger volunteers. Sometimes people have got to put something back in to trials rather than expecting a free ride. If you weren't helping out (and every club in Britain was asked) then you'll have to put up with the observers errors that may creep in.

Edit: That sounds like a dig at the people above - It's definitely not - I'm not placed to criticise what anybody does - but I think you know what I mean - everybody makes the odd mistake, and there's always some a*** in the crowd ready to criticise.

Edited August 1, 2005 by bikespace

[bikespace]

On a different subject - the time was very tight on some of the sections. Made my job as timekeeper a bit of a bugger. It's not nice when someone gets close to the end of the section without wasting too much time, to have to blow the whistle before they get out.

Tadeusz Blazusiak came running back down the section when he got given a 5 (instead of a 3) for running out of time. The whistle blew when he still had to go up the last step, over the last load of rocks and out (probably about 20 feet), but he revved it out to the end quickly and claimed the 3 - saying it was just a second or two, and how could we be that accurate.

Shortly after that he said he hoped I would become very ill soon and had a right tantrum, at which point I lost any sympathy and started smiling at him.

His minder obviously felt bad about it - he just apologised, probably feeling a little guilty as he hadn't shouted anything to Tady as his time ran out, and I don't think Tady understood me as I said ten seconds.

Tadeusz Blazusiak is off my xmas card list anyway whinging toerag.

The sections need to be marked out so that it's not a race against time. Nobody had more than about 8 seconds left when they got out of the section, and most were right on the time, being shouted out by the minders.

There's no way you can give any lea-way, when your stopwatch has an alarm going off after 1 minute 30, and everyone's looking over your shoulder.

Don't want to be too much of a jobsworth, but you've got to blow the whistle when the timer hits zero.

[atomant]

The sections need to be marked out so that it's not a race against time.

I thought the time given for a section was a bit on the low side. Instead of making the sections shorter, I say give them more time. Section 12 was missed by the riders completely because is was deemed too technical to complete in the allotted time. All that work that went into it too

After all, I like most peeps waited 3 1/2 hours or so at section 7, to see Dougie and Co. come through.. and it was all over in a flash.. another 30 seconds wouldnt hurt surely..

On another note.. For their first attempt, L&M done a damn good job of organising this event. Its been provisionally put back in for next year so they must of done something right in the eyes of the FIM

[neonsurge]

I enjoyed the several Spanish strops I saw - Laia Sainz's at section 3 was particuarly impressive (as Gordon mentioned earlier), complete with over-dramatic rock kicking and pouting She was right, though

EDIT: It's good that none of the observers allowed themselves to be bullied, even in the face of some pretty rabid rants.

Edited August 1, 2005 by neonsurge

[gordon zola]

Like I said in the begining, my comments were meant to be constuctive and if L&M take notice of all the comments that come in they can use them to put on an even better show next year. On the subject of Observers this is my final comment. I have done the job for years and know how difficult it is, the riders don't help as they never seem to own up when the od dab takes place but throw a wobbly when they get a tough decision go against them. But for the top guys where a point really does mean prizes, surly a top observer recognised as such by all concerned who follows the circus around the world would improve the standards. The problems occur not when an observer misses somthing everyone knows you can't see eveything but the crowd will, it occurs when they misinterpret the rules and with due respect to them the riders and minders probably know those just as well if not better than they do.

Anyway great couple of days, My ride of the day has to be Antonio Bou on lap1 section 5, REALY SHOWED COMMITMENT.

[bikespace]

I do know what you mean about the observing to a certain extent. Some observers turned up at the briefing and didn't know that the riders were allowed to stop. The CD's were out there somewhere, maybe in some cases new and unopened.

At points the observers question answer session reminded me of a certain scene from Monty Python. I know I'm no expert, but it amused me

FATHER: Guards! Make sure the Prince doesn't leave this room until I come

and get 'im.

GUARD #1: Not to leave the room even if you come and get him.

GUARD #2: Hic!

FATHER: No, no. Until I come and get 'im.

GUARD #1: Until you come and get him, we're not to enter the room.

FATHER: No, no, no. You stay in the room and make sure 'e doesn't leave.

GUARD #1: And you'll come and get him.

GUARD #2: Hic!

FATHER: Right.

GUARD #1: We don't need to do anything, apart from just stop him entering the room.

FATHER: No, no. Leaving the room.

GUARD #1: Leaving the room, yes.

FATHER: All right?

GUARD #1: Right. Oh, if-if-if, uh, if-if-if, uh, if-if-if we...

FATHER: Yes, what is it?

GUARD #1: Oh, if-if, oh--

FATHER: Look, it's quite simple.

GUARD #1: Uh...

FATHER: You just stay here, and make sure 'e doesn't leave the room. All right?

GUARD #2: Hic!

FATHER: Right.

GUARD #1: Oh, I remember. Uh, can he leave the room with us?

FATHER: N- No no no. You just keep him in here, and make sure--

GUARD #1: Oh, yes, we'll keep him in here, obviously. But if he had to leave and we were--

FATHER: No, no, just keep him in here--

GUARD #1: Until you, or anyone else,--

FATHER: No, not anyone else, just me--

GUARD #1: Just you.

GUARD #2: Hic!

FATHER: Get back.

GUARD #1: Get back.

FATHER: Right?

GUARD #1: Right, we'll stay here until you get back.

FATHER: And, uh, make sure he doesn't leave.

GUARD #1: What?

FATHER: Make sure 'e doesn't leave.

GUARD #1: The Prince?

FATHER: Yes, make sure 'e doesn't leave.

GUARD #1: Oh, yes, of course. I thought you meant him. Y'know, it seemed a bit daft, me havin' to guard him when he's a guard.

FATHER: Is that clear?

GUARD #2: Hic!

GUARD #1: Oh, quite clear, no problems.

FATHER: Right.

[starts to leave]

Where are you going?

GUARD #1: We're coming with you.

FATHER: No no, I want you to stay 'ere and make sure 'e doesn't leave.

GUARD #1: Oh, I see. Right.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

The points about observing could be about any and all world rounds, the fact is!! all suffer from the same problem, the riders know this and for the most part accept it.

It has been suggested many times that world trials scoring is in need of professional observers, but what would it cost to send 15 people to Japan and the USA, even if they were not actually paid for doing the job, expenses alone would be too much to make it feasible.

It is easy to miss a dab at that level, you just start watching a brilliant ride and miss a dab, the ride can only be scored on what the observer sees, not the public or anyone else spectateing, first rule of scoring "the rider must always be given the benefit of any doubt" .

Time and section length, are a big factor, a long technical section does make time a major factor, the riders know this and it does make them ride closer to full no stop riding, due to the fact there isn't time to stop and pratt about, in reality this type of section will make for a more exciting event and doesn't need to have the super mega steps to take points, all the time you need and longer time limits per section have been tried and used in the championship, what is now! seems to be the closest in my opinion.

The riders do know the game and also do have say in what changes if any are needed for the coming season, they also know any chance to persuade the observer or score, must be done before they have their card punched! unless a rule was interpreted wrong, they don't have much chance of getting any change to their score.

In reality I think it's about as close as they will get it, without some mega influx of sponsorship money for the FIM to run the show professionally from riding fees to observer fees, only chance of that happening would be the Olympics, then motor sport companies could throw $$$ at it, due to the publicity and coverage the first ever motor sport allowed in the games would attract.

The question is! did you get a good show for the fee you paid at the gate ?

Enjoy the show for what it is, it is still one of the best shows in town

[subira]

Positives:

I think L&M and did a great job 'bringing trials home' - there were problems but it was very professional for a first time event. The public voted with their feet - there needs to be a British WTC round every year. I'm sure next year will be bigger and better.

Ditto thoughts on the toilets issue - although I used the green tin sheds on the MotoX track - porcelain, toilet paper and a good through draft. Plus very little traffic

R2W didn't poison me, I managed that myself courtesy of the Guiness brewery.

A mention must go to the Youths, fantastic rides from Ross Danby and Sam Haslam. Good to see so many Brits having a crack at the sections, excellent experience of riding on the World Stage in front of a massive crowd.

Negatives:

A real shame that Alexz Wigg couldn't be given a dispensation to ride with the Juniors on a non-scoring basis.

I witnessed a few observer wobbles, not 'has he stopped, is he rolling backwards' types, but clear footing that went un-noticed. Agree that it does really need a few of us riders to put their hands up and observe, and then not take up static positions but be prepared to seek the best view of the rider at all times. It is a World Championship and there is money at stake, it needs to be right. No excuses.

More could have been made of Saturday, practice was over very quickly and there was a lot of hanging around with nothing much going on. It's extra work, but how about a non-championship event along the lines of the British Experts on the Saturday PM, allow invited/selected Adult and Youth riders who would be otherwise ineligible to ride to compete on 'adjunct' sections that would be at the Youth/Junior WTC severity. Don't the Spanish have a national round on the Saturday ?

Use the Catering, Beer and Stage facilities in the evenings - even get a band / entertainer on Saturday PM. The traders would have made a fortune - I'm sure they noticed.

Value for Money ? Absobloodylutely

Edited August 1, 2005 by Subira