Trl200 Reflex: Size Compared To Others

[feetupfun]

that photo does not illustrate the trail. If it was to show the trail, the tilted line should be drawn through the steering axis. That photo has the tilted line on the centre line of the fork tubes.

[feetupfun]

You can reduce the trail and make the steering rake steeper by sliding the fork tubes upwards in the clamps, yes, as shown in your photo. The fork caps currently on the forks will limit how far you can slide the tubes upwards. Options are to get fork caps that don't have the air valve cap sticking up so far, and fitting handlebar risers

If you do slide the tubes up, test for mudguard clearance against the frame and exhaust with the forks fully compressed before you ride it

[feetupfun]

To answer another one of your questions, lowering the front of the bike by sliding the fork tubes upwards improves the steering geometry for trials, but does nothing to the fore-aft mass distribution of the bike and rider, so it will not make the front heavier. It will lower the handlebar grips

If you want to lighten the front, move the footpegs rearwards relative the rear axle. This can be done by moving the peg mounts rearwards, or moving the rear axle forwards. On your bike the wheelbase would not benefit from being shorter, so don't move the axle forwards

By the way I'm not suggesting you need to lighten the front, that was your suggestion.

If it was my bike, I would fit aluminium rims (to reduce steering inertia), aluminium trials handlebars (to reduce steering inertia) and slide the fork tubes up about 20mm

Edited June 20, 2014 by feetupfun

[thats_a_five]

Don't confuse front end weight with front end geometry. Trail comes from front end geometry.

The trail comes from 2 factors: 1) the offset from the centerline of the forks and the center of the axle. 2) the angle of the head tube.

You are correct that you want less trail for trials. Many people cut and reweld the frame to get more head angle, and as a result, less trail.

You asked for ""simple mods" that can be done to the Reflex to make it a far better bike." I don't consider cutting and welding the frame to be a "simple mod." By moving the forks up in the triple clamps, you increase the angle a little bit without having to do any cutting and welding. This will decrease the trail a little and improve its turning ability. Some people use longer rear shocks, or move the shock mounts, for the same reason: to raise the rear of the bike, to increase the fork angle / decrease the trail.

Lighter front end does make the bike easier to wheelie but also reduces grip on turns.

I did move the pegs down and back on my bike and it made a huge difference in stability and reducing the top heavy feeling. That can be done with offset pegs. I cut and welded new brackets and fitted larger pegs.

[scooterspal]

that photo does not illustrate the trail. If it was to show the trail, the tilted line should be drawn through the steering axis. That photo has the tilted line on the centre line of the fork tubes.

Thanks. I was not sure how to deal with the axle not being centered on the fork. All the trails pics I found had the axle through the center. Now I know better. Will go back and take new measurements but that should reduce the trail somewhat.

[scooterspal]

While we are on this subject of weight and all I have another question I hope you folks can help with.

Is there any reason someone who weighs, say, 140 lbs cannot ride ride trials on a bike like my TLR200 Reflex weighing at 230lbs as she now sits?

That is, will be be harder for me to balance with this bike than one less heavy?

[jc2]

Honda specs for TLR200 state rake 26.5deg, trail 86mm, wheelbase 1315mm, ground clearance 300mm, seat ht 780mm

For comparison, a TY250 twinshock has 26.5deg rake, 90mm trail, 1295mm w'base, 280mm gr clear, 760mm seat ht

You wanted "simple mods" to improve it. If you mean for trials competition & for a beginner, these should help (many already suggested):

Remove airbox lid

Increase pilot jet

Adjust cam timing 6degs (diff cam sprocket)

Remove lighting equipment, especially from the front end, at least when in competition

Try sliding forks up thro triples/yokes about 20mm (reduces rake, trail, wheelbase & ground clearance slightly)

Footpegs rearset/lowered (bolt-on ones are avialable for the TLR200 from tyoffroad)

Decent trials tyres

Those are all reversible if you don't like them

Beyond that, removing weight would be a priority, but could be quite expensive:

Lighter bars

Lighter tank-seat unit (should also lower seat ht)

Lighter exhaust (should also improve performance)

Alloy rims

[lineaway]

Something not cheap, but needed. The bash plate needs an upgrade. The TLR had a real one.

[scooterspal]

Thanks fellas.

Right now I'm working on my balance. There is no way I can ride this bike until I can balance on it and that is not happening at the moment. At 60 years of age I'm a bit rusty in that area. Hoping I can get some of it back. I own several street bikes and I ride a Honda XR80 dirt bike every weekend in the woods no problem but standing on the pegs on this 200 has to be the hardest thing I have ever tried to do.

Made a simple bongo (seesaw) board last night and started working with it after dinner. Cut it so the outer width is about the same as the peg to peg width on the 200

How did you folks learn to ride trials? Any suggestions for an old man?

Here is what I aspire to. If I can learn do this I will be more than happy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BhZKlU7FhQ

BTW: This fellow in Finland has his TRL200 Reflex street legal... lights and all... just like mine. He rides it to the woods, lowers the tire pressure then pumps them back up for the ride home.

About as pure a trials rider as you can get IMHO.

Check out his description. "100 kg (of) pure iron"

Edited June 24, 2014 by scooterspal

[thats_a_five]

There is no reason you cannot ride the TLR with your weight. I know a couple guys with your weight who very successfully compete on 350 pound, hard tail BSA's and similar. You just have to learn how to properly move your weight around.

While we are on this subject of weight and all I have another question I hope you folks can help with.

Is there any reason someone who weighs, say, 140 lbs cannot ride ride trials on a bike like my TLR200 Reflex weighing at 230lbs as she now sits?

That is, will be be harder for me to balance with this bike than one less heavy?

[thats_a_five]

Are you worried about balancing when stopped? Don't worry about that now. Most Novice sections should be able to be ridden without stopping. If you are not falling over all the time on your street bikes or the XR80, you can also ride the TLR without falling over.

One huge difference in riding trials is how you position your weight in corners. On street bikes you learn into the corner. When riding really slow, leaning in will cause you to fall into the corner. If you watch the guy in the video carefully, you will see that when he turns, he leans the bike into the corner, but moves his body to the outside of the corner and applies his weight to the outside foot peg. My buddy used to say "Go left to turn right" and "Go right to turn left."

The Trials Training Center website has some good free videos you can watch that illustrate proper body positioning and trials riding skills.

And don't worry about being 60. There are many good riders well over 60. I am 63 and there are guys in my club who are well into their 70's who can still ride circles around me. Or ride over me if they wanted to!

[scooterspal]

Are you worried about balancing when stopped?

Actually, this has got me stalled (no pun intended). The videos (which I have on my iPhone so I can watch them over and over) make that look so easy but for now I cannot get past it. Practice and it will come, I hope.

And don't worry about being 60. There are many good riders well over 60. I am 63 and there are guys in my club who are well into their 70's who can still ride circles around me. Or ride over me if they wanted to!

Yes, I know. Have been to a vintage trials meet in Rhode Island and many of the men were my age or older and they were fantastic riders some of them. But we do lose our sense of balance as we age. The hairs in our ears die and they do not grow back. Nerves in our feet grow weak. It happens. I think I'm still OK in that regard but the day will come.

Hey, thanks for the boost. Something I really needed : )

[lineaway]

That guy in the video is a very good rider. You can also learn to turn. On a street bike you turn by opposite bar pressure. (Most riders never learn this) In trials you turn by peg pressure. (Riders are still waiting to learn this.) Practice is what it takes. Static balance is great in the yard if you have time. To balance on concrete takes skill. Good luck.

[tlrider]

Does your Vintage series in New England ride stop or no-stop rules? If you are riding no-stop rules, i.e. you must maintain forward motion, then I suggest working to balance the bike while moving as slowly as possible the same as if you are maintaining continuous motion thru the section.

I ride the MAT (http://www.mid-atlantictrials.com/) series and we ride no-stop. I ride a TLR250 and cannot balance the bike for more than a second or two when stopped but I can balance the bike moving so slowly it appears I'm not moving but because I am moving I can correct an out of balance as I continue moving forward, well most of the time anyway.

We have riders from teenagers into their 70's of all skill levels so you are the right age for vintage.

As others have said learn to steer with your feet.

I think the biggest challenge can be remembering to have fun!

Edit:

I just watched the video and as lineaway points out the rider is very good. An important thing to notice in the video is how he bends his knees towards the front axle when on an incline as well as weighting the outside peg in the turn. This is my big weakness, I must verbally remind myself to bend my knees. I also have a TL125 I rode for ten years. The different frame geometry of the TL125 is very forgiving if I do not bend my knees, however, on the TLR if I do not bend my knees the front wheel will come off the ground or I will lose grip with the rear wheel. Bending the knees can result in the very controlled off camber and inclined riding demonstrated in the video.

Edited June 25, 2014 by tlrider

[lineaway]

If you want to see real twin shock pointers get Bernies book. Best trials book ever. On the fun side get Shipmans trials just for fun. You would enjoy them both, vs the new style of riding.