Trl200 Reflex: Size Compared To Others

[scooterspal]

Does your Vintage series in New England ride stop or no-stop rules?

There is no public sanctioned trials anything in Connecticut where I live. There is a private club that I think has a few trials events and they may be opened to experienced, certified AMA-NETRA non-members when they have events. Their land is not for use by the pubic though.

Other than that trials does not exist here.

I mention motorcycle trials to people and they say "huh?, what?". Very sad. Makes me sick when I watch these Youtube videos from the UK. Folks riding vintage and pre-65 bikes about every weekend in some little hamlet somewhere having the time of their lives.

Adding to my frustration are these BS comments I get when I tell someone, who claims to know bikes, I ride a TLR200 trials bike. "That's not a trials bike, that's an enduro bike"" or "That's a trails bike". The bike salesman (a former motocross rider from the 1970's) at the local Honda dealer ripped me a new one just yesterday on this very subject.

Will not let any of this dampen my enthusiasm for learning and enjoying this wonderful sport though. I'll keep on plugging away.

Edited July 9, 2014 by scooterspal

[thats_a_five]

Yeah, don't let other people's lack of trials knowledge get to you. You would be surprised at how often, when I have my modern bike on the trailer, that people ask me is that a flat track bike? Sometimes I will explain it is a trials bike, sometimes I just say yes and get on my way.

FYI, I grew up in CT. Wallingford actually. I was doing enduro type riding in those days with some trials stuff just for playing. Did a lot of riding from Waterbury to the state lines west and north. I used to find trails using topographic maps. Lots of old trails in CT. I have always kept my bikes pretty quiet so I can ride stealth mode. The TLR is so whisper quiet, I have ridden up on people, deer, and dogs who didn't hear me until I was within about 30 feet.

I have seen some mention of a trials area in Meriden. Don't know any details - been away for over 30 years. Get to some events and meet people. That is how I found the guys I ride with now.

Have fun!

[scooterspal]

FYI, I grew up in CT. Wallingford actually.

I live in Wethersfield. Not so far away. I own some land in Middletown that I can ride on. Even closer to your old homestead : )

I have seen some mention of a trials area in Meriden. Don't know any details - been away for over 30 years.

It's located at the Meriden Motorcycle Club. Claims to be the oldest MC club in the country. From the looks of the pictures on their club house walls it just may be. But it's a closed shop more or less. You need to hang around for a long time working the events and such before you can even get a chance to become a made member. Not the friendliest bunch of fellas either if you are an outsider.

I'm not much of a joiner. There is just too much publicly owned land in Connecticut that is just sitting there unused that we, as tax paying riders, cannot get access to.

This has to change.

People need an escape. Especially when things (economy wise) are so down. I have this plaque someone gave me hanging in my garage workshop. Says something to the effect "Riding beats going to a psychiatrist".

[tlrider]

You may want to contact Mike Waller at Britannia Motorcycles in Richford, NY near Ithaca. http://www.britanniamotorcycles.com/

He is the closest I'm aware of to you but he will probably know what's going on in the NE. Google Maps shows approximately 4-1/2 hours from your area. I have ridden a two day event at his place and the sections were very good for vintage bikes.

Regarding the TLR200 Reflex being referred to as an enduro bike here is the story I was told by a Honda shop owner in Pennsylvania, at least this is what I remember and I can not find the story which was posted on their website.

This Honda dealer was a Trials rider in the 70's and 80's, possibly longer and rode an RS250, the predecessor to the TLR's. He was at some function with Honda employees from Japan. In conversation the dealer mentioned that the US market could use a bike like the RS250. Apparently the Honda employee he had engaged in conversation was fairly high up in the company and within a relatively short time, a year or so I believe, the TLR200 Reflex was introduced.

The TLR200 Reflex differs from the TLR200 available in the UK in several ways but not limited to the following, steel rims vs. aluminum, smaller diameter forks, taller top gears for the road and the California emissions package that chokes the motor.

I feel that Honda marketed the Reflex as an enduro bike rather than a Trials bike due to the poor sales of the TL models in the mid 70's. Trials is a niche market here and I think Honda marketed the bike towards the larger trail riding community. Having ridden a road legal Reflex I think Honda blew it by leaving the Trials seat on it. The seat forces you down to the tank and with the pegs located for Trials one feels like a jockey on a horse. I think had Honda put an enduro style seat on the bike it may have sold better in the enduro market. If you sit way back on the seat the bike is comfortable to ride seated.

The changes made for the enduro market had an adverse effect on the bikes performance as a Trials bike therefore the bike did not perform well in either market.

I know of about 8 or so Reflexes that have been converted into very competitive Trials bikes with mods from simply jetting and exhaust to complete overhauls with aluminum rims, different forks etc.

That is my opinion of the Reflex and am sure others have differing opinions which I would like to hear. If my recollection of the Reflex story can be corroborated or corrected I am interested in that as well.

For me the 'Reflex' issue really comes down to the fact that I prefer the power delivery of a 4 stroke and I prefer riding vintage Trials over Modern Trials. I would have a tricked out Reflex but I was fortunate to find a TLR250.

Enjoy yourself and the bike.

[axulsuv]

I worked at a Honda dealer twisting wrench's when the Reflex was released . I still had my poweroll big bore tl125 at the time (Well it was in my big brothers garage a few towns away ) I hadn't rode a trials event in years and I got all excited while uncrating and setting up the reflex , just looking at that XR200 based engine in a trials bike !!! But that went out the window when I fired it up and rode one for the first time . My first impression was Honda screwed up ! The gearbox wasn't trials , it went no where near slow enough , was totally gutless , and it had a battery !!! It almost handled like a trials bike , but not quite ... It was uncomfortable to ride on the street for more than a couple miles ... I was left wondering what market Honda was trying to reach with the model ?

And now some 28 years later , I've got a 87 model out in the shop , all lightened up , Trials seat/tank unit on it, electrical system stripped down to a kill switch and ign. , Carb modified , noise reduction baffles removed from the airbox , Different exhaust system so you can hear the bike run (although not loud at all ) and mildly re positioned footpegs and different final drive gears so it's slowable ... And this 15 year old son that loves his reflex like I loved my TL back in the day ...

So who's to say Honda didn't hit the mark ? It just took a while for the bike they never tried hard to market here . And you still meet the nicest people on a Honda !

Glenn

[thats_a_five]

That is disappointing to hear about the Meriden club. Hopefully, someone from the club will read this and contact you.

I understand completely about not being a "joiner." I am happy to report that trials riders general are a pretty helpful lot. Not only have I developed some strong friendships, I have benefitted from them helping me learn and improve my riding.

I also strongly recommend having a riding buddy for safety reasons. Other riders already have areas where they ride and sometimes they will share. If you have good riding property others will help you build trails and sections if you let them ride with you there.

Don;t get me started on "public" land that we can't access. In Washington we have several national forests that are each larger than the whole state of CT. Most of it off limits. Grrrrrr.

[scooterspal]

I was lucky enough to be invited to attend a vintage classics trials event at a privately owned forest here in Connecticut this past Sunday. There were around a dozen riders from CT, Mass, RI and New York there. All personal friends of the land owner, a rider himself, who holds this event once each year.

I went as a checker since I did not feel yet up to speed on riding. Provably could have ridden the C line but there is always next year. There were three TLR200's there. One broke his throttle cable early on and ended up riding one of the remaining 200's to complete. They had eight sections each marked for A, B and C. Section 3 was a straight climb up the hill about 300 feet... probably at 45 to 50 degrees. No trouble for the 200's. In fact most all the bikes made it up. Yamaha TY250's, TY175, TY80, Penta's, BSA, Honda 250, 125.

Youngest rider was 10 and the oldest close to 80. The 80 year old won for best novice.

A great time was had by all who attended. A no pressure event put on by a nice guy at his expense.

If this is what trials can be then I'm happy to be part of it.

"I also strongly recommend having a riding buddy for safety reasons. Other riders already have areas where they ride and sometimes they will share. If you have good riding property others will help you build trails and sections if you let them ride with you there."

I hope to make this work and, yes, I have invited others to come to my property and check it out. That's why I bought it. It can never be built on but it can be a great place to ride on.

Edited July 14, 2014 by scooterspal

[scooterspal]

My first impression was Honda screwed up ! The gearbox wasn't trials , it went no where near slow enough , was totally gutless , and it had a battery !!! It almost handled like a trials bike , but not quite ... It was uncomfortable to ride on the street for more than a couple miles ... I was left wondering what market Honda was trying to reach with the model ?

I agree, out of the gate, the 200 Reflex leads a very confusing life. He just does not know what he wants to be when he grows up. Where this whole issue of the 200 not being a trials bike comes in, I feel, is when riders who have ridden other, perhaps better designed, trials bikes poo-poo it as not being up to the standards they are accustomed to. That's fine and I can see their point.

However, for me at least, this is all new and I come to the 200 having no prior trials riding experience on any other machine. I am finding I can easily accept the TLR200's faults, if that's what they are, and work with them. Just like the fellas at the meet this past Sunday. They love their 200's and that's what they choose to ride.

BTW: they all rode extremely well on the B and A lines.

So tweak the carburetor, adjust the dive train ratio and get riding. All the rest of it, I feel at least, can be overcome with good rider technique. Heck, mine has full electrical and I plan to keep it that way.

If you're into vintage twinshock trials riding it should serve you well.

Edited July 14, 2014 by scooterspal

[thats_a_five]

That's great to hear that you found some other, more typical trials riders.

I think many people miss the point on the TLR Reflex. I bought mine simply because it can be legally registered, ridden on public roads to get to the trails, and still have trials capability. Of course, compromises had to be made to be street legal and stable at 60 mph.

[lineaway]

This was from last months vintage event. Another young man trying to ride a trail bike.