Trials Curious

[pat_56]

Greetings All, Trials bikes are unbelievably rare where I live on the East Coast of Canada. I have had over 30 motorcycles since my 1st 1972 Hodaka 100 B+. I currently own a 2003 Kawasaki ZX9R Ninja and a 1984 Honda XL200. I have been very curious about trials since seeing it on wide world of sports back in the early 80's but have never even sat on a trials bike. We just sold my sons 1st bike (Honda 70) because he outgrew it. I am considering a vintage TY250 for him because he has expressed an interest in novice trials riding and anything that gets him off of the computer is great to me. I have come to this forum in search of advice and information.

[smalley250]

I would get something newer as they are loads better to learn on than older bikes, ie lighter clutch better brakes all hydraulic and the rear shocks are great on new mono shocks. Upkeep of old bikes can weigh up to to the cost of a newer bike in the long run.

[petert]

There used to be a very active trials scene around the Montreal area

[pat_56]

"Something Newer than a TY250" That is a considerable quandary for me. I have long wanted a spare bike as I have several friends who always wanted to try a motorbike (any motorbike, no experience at all), I am 56 and used to be a certified street riding instructor which tends to draw people to me for advice. I will still be using my 1984 XL200 Honda to go exploring with my son so our 1st trials bike will do a little short range doubling as a trail bike through somewhat rough winding trails. We will require a lot of practice with balance and going very very slow. If we progress at this I will happily move up keeping the extra bike as my spare.

"Active Trials in Montreal" I am about 900 kilometers from Montreal, however that seems to be the closest source of used Trials bikes and is likely where I will end up going to get one. I can't find any for sale in my province - New Brunswick.

I placed a post on Face Book for anyone that knows the whereabouts of...... And it turns out that someone I know has recently got one. I have tried to contact him for several days without success. I don't have any idea what he has, vintage or current. When I get to examine, discuss and test ride his bike It will take me a long way on my decision process, so I am looking forward to checking his bike out very much!

My totally uneducated reason for mentioning a TY250 is availability. There a couple good looking units near Montreal area for less than $2000 and yes funds are very limited.

Thank you very much for responding it is what I am looking for, going for a more modern bike? Newer is usually better.

[mags]

Pat,

Welcome to the site! I'm not much passed curious stage. Six months into trials and we enjoy the sport (lifestyle) with my wife. I've been riding motorcycles since 11 and am your age now.

We are very fortunate to have to late model 4 strokes and the modern bike (2 str or 4 str) is stunning when out there doing it!

I went 4 stroke because we live in suburbia and I want to practice in our limited space most days. They are very quiet with stock exhausts so suit us well in our home area and doesn't annoy neighbours on other side of the fence.

Having had many bikes you should/might be able to maintain the trials bikes fairly easily?

The modern bikes can be a labour of love at times if you don't enjoy mechanical work. For example, my Montesa Cota has to have the left side cover removed to gain access to the oil filter sitting in an o ringed bore.

The Beta Evo 4T of my wifes has a normal oil filter cover you remove for access to the element but also has two filter screens that should be removed and cleaned as well. This really involves removing the shift lever to get a torque wrench in there. I also remove bash plate for ease of work and cleanliness.

Valve lash adjustment is done on a twice yearly basis approximately. The Beta has to have the engine angled forward to gain access to the valve covers. This involves removing radiator support and fiddling a bit to get it forward with motor so you don't have to drain coolant for valve check.

The Cota is far easier and just requires tank and injection.

Other maintenance is just like the 2 strokes.... keeping an eye on things like suspension, sprockets, chains, head stem play et cetera.

The modern bikes are super expensive as well... here in Australia anyway! There is no need to have a modern bikes as first intro to trials IMHO.

The above said.... I wouldn't swap our experience for the world! We love the things! The capability, the quality and sheer fun of challenging yourself in a creek bed is the stuff of life, in my opinion! Damed addictive... and doing it with your son, how cool is that!!!

You could do worse than the TY .... it has great following and has plenty of people familiar with them and good parts available mostly.

We have trial comps here just for TY only, thats the popularity.

There is no doubting the 2 strokes are easier on the pocket to maintain and re-build but you may settle on a bike between the TY and the latest offerings?

Good luck in your quest!

Mags

Edited July 4, 2014 by mags

[pat_56]

Mags,

Thank you for your comments. My internet communications with persons from Australia and New Zealand to date give me cause to believe it would be a great place to visit.

Over the next few days hope to get to try out a vintage Honda, I don't think it is for sale. There is a real good looking '78 TV 250 about 8 hours away for $1200. It looks very good still sporting its original paint bright and shiny and the Canadian dollar is pretty much on par with the Australian.

I really like watching the slow rider videos, the slower the more impressive to me. I have my Ninja for speed and a pretty zippy Honda Civic Si (Si model is 201 hp normally aspirated 4 cyl with a 6 speed manual shift) Do you find the 4 strokes more stable low speed than two strokes? The old Hondas on Youtube seem to be chugging around like farm tractor.

[copemech]

A TY of that vintage would be a desirable bike if in good condition. May be just the ticket for your putting about. Reliable and seems parts are available. Has a real seat!

Hondas of that vintage are slugs by comparison.

Neither compare to a modern bike. Extra 50 lbs in there and poorer suspension. But they will perform!

If the tank is good, preserve it by installing a Sammy Miller glass tank and seat to trim down the bike, stunning difference. Goog shocks help as well!

[thats_a_five]

Welcome to the world of trials. It is a great sport and I think attracts a certain type of people. People who are very competitive but who cheer for their competitors just as loudly as for themselves.

I happen to own a 2005 Montesa 4RT (4 stroke), 3 Honda TLR200's (4 stroke) and a 1974 Yamaha TY250 (2 stroke). As others have said, bike technology has evolved dramatically over the 40 years since the TY was built.

You mention a TY250 for sale for about $2000. There are 2 significantly different series named TY250.

The bikes from '74 to about '78 were twin shock, air cooled, drum brakes, more like a '70's trail bike. In fact, Yamaha even sold large seats and foot peg relocation kits for better trail riding. Weight about 220#.

In the mid 1980's Yamaha sold a TY 250 that was a mono-shock, drum brakes, with narrow fiberglass tank and seat unit. In the US, that model was only sold with a350cc engine (TY350). Weight about 200#

I think $2000 is a high price for either vintage unless it is a very well preserved original, or nicely restored bike.

As trails learning bikes, either will be a fair starting place. They both make really good "buddy bikes" for ride-alongs or for very inexperienced riders because they are geared low and slow and are very forgiving. For new riders, having a seat can be much easier to ride.

So called "modern" bikes came about in the mid 1990's. Much better suspensions, lower center of gravity, disc brakes and no seats. They also lost a lot of weight. 160-170#.

By the early 2000's "modern" bikes had been improved, and evolved. Most became water cooled and dropped another 10 to 20 pounds. They have continued to evolve into highly specialized bikes with amazing capabilities.

*******

You asked for advice. My first advice is that any bike that will get your boy off the computer (and his butt) is worth doing. If you and he can ride together you can build bonds and share some great times together.

I know bike prices vary a lot from place to place. For a '70's TY, I would expect between $700 and $1300. Good running rider bike, not a museum piece,

For an '80's bike I would expect between $900 and $1500.

For a '90's bike between $1000 and $1800.

With trials bikes the price is so dependent on condition. Some have been garage queens and some have been ridden hard and put away wet.

A quick check on Craig's List shoed one or 2 bikes in Nova Scotia and several in Maine.

Good luck!

[pat_56]

Hi, I think the TY250 or 350 bikes are good ones to start with as they are generally very reliable and parts are still available.

There is a lot of compelling information to support this option and I have heard nothing specific against them, unlike the information I turned up investigating Suzuki trials bikes where nearly all the information was for significant modifications and repairs to overcome their short comings, pretty much every one had to repair frame cracks so I ruled them out quite early. There is a very nice looking Yamaha TY250 one in Montreal for $1200.

I would also consider a TY175, they look good on Youtube and are a bit lighter than the 250.

If the tank is good, preserve it by installing a Sammy Miller glass tank and seat to trim down the bike, stunning difference. Goog shocks help as well!

That's a great tip, I didn't know such a thing existed, I will definitely check this out should I land a vintage bike. I am also an experienced automotive painter so I can envision a cool custom in this idea!

Welcome to the world of trials. It is a great sport and I think attracts a certain type of people. People who are very competitive but who cheer for their competitors just as loudly as for themselves.

I happen to own a 2005 Montesa 4RT (4 stroke), 3 Honda TLR200's (4 stroke) and a 1974 Yamaha TY250 (2 stroke).

As trails learning bikes, either will be a fair starting place. They both make really good "buddy bikes"

*******

You asked for advice. My first advice is that any bike that will get your boy off the computer (and his butt) is worth doing. If you and he can ride together you can build bonds and share some great times together.

A quick check on Craig's List shoed one or 2 bikes in Nova Scotia and several in Maine.

Good luck!

Wow, your impressive list of bikes ads weight to your advice. Yes if I get a good bike as a starting point it would make a great buddy bike. I will probably avoid any bike that is registered as street legal because In New Brunswick any dual purpose bike has be street licensed and insured to use off road legally, which means my son who is 14 will not be able to legally ride it off road unless on our own property. Laws for an off road only motorbike are completely different as they fall under a competition classification.

I sure wish we were in driving distance, I would love to check out your collection!

Pitty there are is no organized trials following in this area. I could see us being quite active just volunteering at events.

I have not been checking Craigs list, I will be checking it out right away!

The computer, specifically "Minecraft" He will play it as long as he is allowed, every day and every night.

I started him on a Honda 70 two years ago for simplicity sake, he enjoyed it but we did not get out a lot and he quickly outgrew it, he can now touch the ground on my XL200. On photo's you can see the happiness on his face, he does not show such happiness from being on the computer yet he will fight to be on it.

I will spend my last dime to get him off of computer, even if it means selling my 2003 Kawasaki Ninja 900 and I am very fond of my Ninja but when it goes it will never be replaced. I have been a shift worker for 7 years, in 3 days I am starting a new day position and I am hoping this helps develop a more regulated routine of family activities.

Thank all for the information, it has all been added up and will significantly effect my search.

[petert]

Try here http://www.trialscanada.com/

There appears to be a trials club in Nova Scotia if that's any nearer

[pat_56]

Try here http://www.trialscanada.com/

There appears to be a trials club in Nova Scotia if that's any nearer

Yes, Nova Scotia is much nearer. I was previously on a Nova Scotia Trials page but all the events were out of date by about 2 years. Somehow I missed this updated site - Thanks. The next event they have is September 21. Oddly all their classified ads are bikes thousands of kilometers away from Nova Scotia. The Nova Scotia Border is about 110 miles from here by land or about 40 miles by water but the ferry is 6 times what the gas would cost to drive there. I will check this site out for contacts which may prove interesting.

[thats_a_five]

There are many people who have much better collections than I. Mine are riders, not museum pieces. Like many trials riders, if you were closer and wanted to take some test rides, you would be more than welcome.

You mentioned a TY175. Great bikes. Most of the historic riders in western USA prefer those to Ty250s.

In the interest of getting your boy off the compute, don't wait to find a trials bike. Find something in the low horsepower range of full size trail or enduro bikes. Don't wait so long that you lose this summer. Get him on a bike!

FYI, out here in the Pacific Northwet, with thousands of square miles of forest and mountains, the greenies have gotten so much of the land designated "no motor vehicles," we often have to drive 100 miles or more to ride in events. But it's worth it!q

[pat_56]

Planning a trip next weekend to look at a couple TY175s. One looks pretty good and is $1200. The other is rough but he says runs good, he is asking $450. If they run good I may get them both. One is a 1977 the other is a 1978 model. There is also a single shock 250 for $1100 but it is quite rough as well.

[axulsuv]

Just get both ty175's , With a little effort you can't loose on them !

And I too use our trials bikes to keep my boys active and to provide some together time

Glenn

[pat_56]

We got a bike! It took three days of driving a round trip of 2100 kms, but we got a 1977 ty 175 in what I consider really good shape for a 37 year old bike.

He was advertising it for $1200 and I called and offered him $800. He wanted a half a day to think about it but I had a schedule to follow and it was a long way away so without waiting for his answer I threw the tent, Son, Wife and 3 dogs (yes three freaking dogs!) in our little SUV. Hitched up my small second hand Canadian Tire utility trailer and hit the road figuring if we don't get the bike we would have a much needed camping trip in a far away place so we were off to Quebec. About 400 kilometers from home I called him and he said (actually his daughter said as she was translating because I don't speak French and he didn't speak English) he would take my offer, I was very happy.

About 15 minutes after I talked to them, they called me back. She said she wanted to make sure I understood that the bike wouldn't start, "I became less happy" but said I was on my way so we would have a look at it.

The ad was written in French and the bit about it not starting as they say "Got Lost in the Translation" What I got the add was one photo, the price and that it hadn't been used in 2 years, which it hadn't.

We spent the 1st night in our car at a highway rest stop where we got about 3 hours sleep. The next day I left early and at 8:00 am, with 1030 kilometers from home on my odometer rolled into his yard.

The bike looked good and had obviously been kept inside. I started looking it over and the guy couldn't do enough for me, I think perhaps he was a little shocked that I had come so far for his little bike that wouldn't start. He offered to help me get it started if I wanted to but I had no intention of trying to start it because I wanted to wake it up properly from it's 2 year sleep with some good proper cleaning. I confirmed that it had compression and spark, gave him the $800 that we had agreed upon, loaded it up and hit the road.

We came home part of the way on a different route that took me through some pretty impressive mountains and although my car is plenty powerful and has a 6 speed transmission, we were in 3rd gear making some of the hills.

That night we stayed in a camp ground, left early the next day (Day 3) including a bit of touring around and made it home around supper time.

"I let my Wife and Son unload the car" and immediately got into the bike. (Ok my "Wife LET Me" work on the bike while they unloaded the car) I pulled the carburetor off and as I suspected it was full of dirt, dirty stale gas and water. I cleaned it thoroughly and took the fuel valve off which dumped about two liters of rusty gas and water from a tank that I thought was empty. I dropped in some rocks and water did the rusty tank hokey pokey rinse and repeat ect.

I put in some fresh gas. She sprang to life in one and a half easy kicks she started and settled into a smooth steady idle. Woo Hoo! What a relief!

The clean up took about 3 hours but it runs flawlessly.

I rode it around a bit, I was over tired, under fed and had a bit of the adrenaline shakes but overall very happy.

The only problem is I have no idea how to ride this thing! Cool. After 40 years of owning (over 30 bikes) and riding motorcycles I have found something new.

Well the trip expenses were around $400, gas food, camping, coffee, coffee, good strong coffee ans so on but it wasn't the guys fault that was selling the bike that someone so far away wanted his little bike, and it wasn't the bikes fault either. So should I count the trip expenses as part of my Motorbikes expenses?

I don't think so, it got us all together some place where we had some laughs as well as some short nerves and tension. But it was away from the TV and computer and we brought home a cool $800 "Souvenir" of the trip so I say it was a good deal all around!

Edited July 29, 2014 by pat_56