thats_a_five Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 That's awesome! A new (to you) bike in the garage and a road trip with the family. Also great that it started and runs so well after you took time to clean things out properly. With the dirty tank, I would recommend adding an in-line fuel lifter. As for riding, watch some of the training videos. Get some peg time, just learning the bike. One really good exercise is to take a couple items (blocks of wood, soda bottles, rocks, whatever), set them out and ride figure 8's around them. Lean the bike into the corner, lean your body out of the corner to maintain balance, gradually ride slower and slower, making the figure 8's smaller and smaller. Try to do that at idle without using the clutch. Most importantly, have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_56 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) That's awesome! A new (to you) bike in the garage and a road trip with the family. Also great that it started and runs so well after you took time to clean things out properly. With the dirty tank, I would recommend adding an in-line fuel lifter. As for riding, watch some of the training videos. Get some peg time, just learning the bike. One really good exercise is to take a couple items (blocks of wood, soda bottles, rocks, whatever), set them out and ride figure 8's around them. Lean the bike into the corner, lean your body out of the corner to maintain balance, gradually ride slower and slower, making the figure 8's smaller and smaller. Try to do that at idle without using the clutch. Most importantly, have fun! After 40 years of having over 30 bikes made to sit on. My first impressions were that this thing feels like the alien of all motorcycles, I wasn't used to standing and sitting on the thing certainly didn't feel right. Anyway it was beginning to rain, it was dark, it was late, my wife didn't want me to bother the neighbors, and my dog was barking at me so in the garage it went. I checked in on the computer and saw your tip to lean the bike in on the turn. I did feel unsteady turning the bike upright but after all - leaning is something you do at speed right? Tonight I had to pull it out of the garage for 5 minutes after work - before supper. The difference of leaning into the turn was immediate and surprising, almost felt natural! Edited July 29, 2014 by pat_56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Yes, many techniques that work in higher speed riding do not work so well for slow speed. Leaning, for example. At speed, lean with the bike, riding slow, lean opposite the bike. A riding buddy tells me "go right to go left and go left to go right. The biggest help to that is to keep your outside elbow up and your head leaning away from the turn. As soon as you lean your head into the turn, you will dab on the inside. Its almost like your foot has a string to your head. For some reason, the pics did not open the other day bit they did now. Nice looking bike - very original. A couple suggestions: 1) get some bigger pegs or if you can weld, make some extensions that go wider and longer. Beware this may interfere with your kicker. I took the sprong off my right peg and ground on it enough that it will stay up out of the way while kicking. 2) those look like trials universal tires. They are better on pavement but not so good for real trials riding. Competition tires have much softer rubber and larger spaces between the tread blocks for better grip. They do wear pretty quickly on pavement though. Did you get the little tool kit in the little box under the steering head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_56 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Yes, many techniques that work in higher speed riding do not work so well for slow speed. Leaning, for example. At speed, lean with the bike, riding slow, lean opposite the bike. A riding buddy tells me "go right to go left and go left to go right. The biggest help to that is to keep your outside elbow up and your head leaning away from the turn. As soon as you lean your head into the turn, you will dab on the inside. Its almost like your foot has a string to your head. For some reason, the pics did not open the other day bit they did now. Nice looking bike - very original. A couple suggestions: 1) get some bigger pegs or if you can weld, make some extensions that go wider and longer. Beware this may interfere with your kicker. I took the sprong off my right peg and ground on it enough that it will stay up out of the way while kicking. 2) those look like trials universal tires. They are better on pavement but not so good for real trials riding. Competition tires have much softer rubber and larger spaces between the tread blocks for better grip. They do wear pretty quickly on pavement though. Did you get the little tool kit in the little box under the steering head? Yes, these are the exactly the kind of tips that are appropriate at our stage, and the type of thing that I love because they are what make the early stages technical and interesting and a person will veritably never figure out on your own until progress becomes arrested to boredom and discouragement. I am in fact very well equipped for welding, I did feel that the pegs were a little narrow and had considered off set pegs that I saw on line. Modifying mine is a much better idea and I won't have to wait for delivery. Do you by any chance have a close up photo of the end result? As it is not immediately obvious to me what you mean by "Wider and Longer"? Yes I think they are Universal Tires, for this year though we will be quite occupied making straight lines, figure 8's tight turns, "Stand Stills" and the occasional trail ride for a change up (I will still be using my old XL200). These old hard and cracked tires may be in for a few miles yet. I am not sure if I mentioned this before but I am the "Idiot" on wheels, I want to wheelie and do bunny hops and fancy turns right out of the gate (That doesn't mean I am talented or accomplished, just impetuous and a bit intense even for my age of 56) but my 14 year old Son is not like that at all! I need to focus on encouraging and praising his progress while curbing my own tendency to be the center of attention. This is all about drawing him off of the computer since pushing him off has been ineffective and why should it be unless I can offer him something better. I haven't looked in the tool box, I forgot. I do however have a few immediate needs. I want to replace all the cables for the brake, clutch and throttle. I also want to replace the brake shoes. I have a theory that if there are premium quality cables available it should have a significant in the feel and performance of brakes and clutch. The same with brake shoes. Does anyone have any recommendations for cables and brake shoes that work particularly well? I would hate to spend $125 for a bargain brand parts lot if $200 would net a boost in feel and drivability. How much pressure should I run in these ratty old tires? What is a good brand of Oil for the engine? What is a good Ratio to mix the gas? (Premium only of course) What is a good transmission oil? Edited July 31, 2014 by pat_56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 For a really new rider like your son, I suggest not jumping too quickly into riding slow trials techniques. Let him spend time on the bike having fun just learning to ride it around. One really nice thing about the old TY’s is they are so easy to ride. But a new rider still needs to spend time making things like pulling the clutch and front brake, shifting and rear brake without having to stop and think about it. It needs to become an automatic response. Also, there needs to be some building up of finger and wrist muscles. Remember, you want it to be more fun than those video games. To modify the pegs I took a piece of flat stock and bent it into a shape and size similar to some KTM pegs I had. I think they ended up about 2” front to back and 4” from pivot to the outer end. I welded those around the original pegs, then added some small pieces to support the new outer rim to the originals. Then I ground some teeth on the top side to provide grip to the boots. I will attach some pics of the ugly bike that sort of shows the pegs if you zoom in. I added the extra in front of the pegs because the bike was a bit front end light. I have since extended the swing arm – remember, this is my ’74 TY250. For learning, the universal tires will be OK. They will have about 35-40% of the grip of competition tires. They wear like iron but watch the sidewalls for cracking. Try to leave the “idiot” in the shed. Remember you have a 37 year old bike with old suspension that had only about 4” of travel when new. Wheelies, OK, bunny hops? Gonna take some serious body movements to do that! You might want to take the lights off before you let the “idiot” ride. The last thing you want is for your son to see you get hurt. For specific things like oil recommendation, cable sources, etc, I would suggest to search or post your questions in the Yamaha or Twin shock forums below. I am still using the stock cables, just really did a thorough job of hanging them up, working in solvent, and then lube oil to get them to work smoothly. If they are broken or frozen with rust, then replace them. Moving the clutch and brake perches inward on the bars will put your fingers at the end of the levers, giving more leverage. Some people like to bend the ends of their levers so you can use only 1 or 2 fingers and leave the other fingers with good grip on the bars. I will attach a pic of the front of my bike so you can see what I mean. Yes, I heat bend that crazy bend on purpose. I think Trails Central is the best Trials site there is. For older Yamahas two great sites can be found by searching for “B& J Racing” and “Tony Down, Black Cat.” I find a lot of parts on eBay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 On the left side of your bike just below the red cover is a sight glass. That is for the 2 stroke oil. Pull the cover off and the plastic tank can swing out for filling. The throttle cable has a Y joint in the middle with one side going to the carb and one side going to the oil injection pump (on the right side inside the clutch cover you can see this cable going into the housing on your bike). You put straight 2 stroke oil in the oil tank and straight fuel in the fuel tank. No premix needed. For best grip, you want to run the tires really soft - In my modern bike I run 6 in front and 4 in rear. With older bikes, the tires can come off the beads at those low pressures. On my TY I run 7-10 in front and 7-8 in the rear, depending on trail conditions. Be sure to run rim locks and take the nuts off the valve stem. Reason: as the tire slips around the rim, it will pull the tube with it. If you leave the nuts on it will eventually tear the stem from the tube which is virtually impossible to repair. Of course that will happen at the farthest point from the tuck on Sunday when no cycle shops are open. With the nut off, you can see the stem start to lean and then get sucked into the rim, giving you a warning to reposition the tire and tube before it tears the stem off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_56 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) That's_a_five, I Like the look of those pegs, I think I can make that happen to mine. Hmm, Don't think I've seen that tank on a TY before? nice how your seat fits the frame so neatly. The whole package kind of has a Euro vibe, up to the tell tail Yamaha exhaust guard. Your bike looks well set up and personalized, I think I can identify with your comfort level with having tailored it to your needs but it has been a long time since I have had a machine that fits that bill for me, I find it takes time and miles to build a relation ship with a machine although I am rather fond of my Ninja 900. Oh ya, riding around will certainly occupy the bulk of the remainder of this year, we have endless trails starting a few hundred yards up our street. As Spencers comfort level picks up I will gradually lead him into mildly irregular terrain and there is a favorite little grove with lots of tree roots and a few small flat rocks that we used to trek around in as a slow control exercise which challenged his Honda 70 because of the small wheels. I am not nearly as daring as my desire to be would suggest, at my age I have a keen appreciation of how badly I land and how much it hurts that keeps the fulfillment of my stunting fantasies well in check. FYI, the little shot of me doing the stopie that comes up as my profile is photo shopped - My right leg is on the ground and I blotted it with a photo editor, the little bike wasn't even running. I looked in the little tool box, it only has a spark plug in it but the spark plug is in a very old box marked Genuine Yamaha Parts. Tonight I made an air filter from a foam lawn tractor filter I stitched the sides with my sewing machine, turned it inside out and ran a bead of silicone over the seam. I stretched it over the original filter basket and the edges shrank over the open end nicely so they folded under when I put it in place, coated with oil of course. I will order a couple originals this week. I tried to take a link out of the chain but found it would not have been long enough if I had by about 1/8 inch so it looks like Chain and sprockets will be on the early list too. I also installed new fuel line and a filter. Then puddled around on it for 5 or 10, the little thing works quite nicely. Later, Pat Edited July 31, 2014 by pat_56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_56 Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 On the left side of your bike just below the red cover is a sight glass. That is for the 2 stroke oil. Pull the cover off and the plastic tank can swing out for filling. The throttle cable has a Y joint in the middle with one side going to the carb and one side going to the oil injection pump (on the right side inside the clutch cover you can see this cable going into the housing on your bike). You put straight 2 stroke oil in the oil tank and straight fuel in the fuel tank. No premix needed. For best grip, you want to run the tires really soft - In my modern bike I run 6 in front and 4 in rear. With older bikes, the tires can come off the beads at those low pressures. On my TY I run 7-10 in front and 7-8 in the rear, depending on trail conditions. Be sure to run rim locks and take the nuts off the valve stem. Reason: as the tire slips around the rim, it will pull the tube with it. If you leave the nuts on it will eventually tear the stem from the tube which is virtually impossible to repair. Of course that will happen at the farthest point from the tuck on Sunday when no cycle shops are open. With the nut off, you can see the stem start to lean and then get sucked into the rim, giving you a warning to reposition the tire and tube before it tears the stem off. The oil injection was disconnected when I got the bike and I have no plan of putting it back in use as I don't know exactly why it was disconnected in the 1st place. So it looks like Pre Mix is the way I am going to roll. Wow, I had no idea the tire pressures were run that low! Good tip on the inner tube, I will check those wheel related items out tomorrow. The tires have lots of tread but lots of cracks besides. They hold air well but if they start to become a problem I will replace them with a good set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 When I bought the bike, about 4 year ago, it ran great but needed a lot of love to get it into good riding condition. The long seat was an option from Yamaha when it was new. They sold that seat and a kit of parts to reposition the footpegs, shifter and brake pedal for using the bike as a trail bike. It’s funny but after riding modern trials bikes with no seats for so long, I forget I can sit when I ride the TY. The bike came with the metal tank that was damaged and poorly repaired and rusty inside. It also came with the plastic unbreakable tank. That was an aftermarket tank in the 70’s. I put one just like it on the Honda enduro bike I was riding back then after playing trial rider and dropping the bike with the tank right onto a sharp rock. I could fix the metal one but since this is used as a “buddy bike” and “new rider test bike” I leave the plastic because it makes the bike pretty bullet proof. I recently made some lower peg mounts and extended the swing arm. Super stable now. Fun bike. Front brakes are still more of a suggestion to the wheel to slow down. LOL. That’s why I did that funky bend on the lever so I can use 2 fingers and pull it all the way to the bars. I don’t dare ride a bike with 900 cc’s. I know I would want to use all that throttle. You are so very lucky to have all those trails close to your house. I just drove 120 mile round trip today to build 2 sections for an upcoming trial in September. I laughed out loud when you explained that stoppie pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Yes, a lot of guys disconnect the auto-lube and run pre-mix. I think the mix should be about 50:1. Search the Yamaha forum for oil or pre-mix. I am sure you will get a lot of info that others have posted about what they like and use. For trials, most people go to a smaller front sprocket. Before you throw out the existing chain and sprockets, search the Yamaha forum. You don’t have to change them all at the same time unless they are really badly worn. Smaller front sprocket makes it easier to ride slow and may give you that 1/8” you need to remove one link from the chain. Cool, original plug in original box. Collector’s item? You gonna get your boy on it this weekend? Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_56 Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 As a matter of fact The boy just asked if we could go out tomorrow as I was logging onto the computer! I have read about someone who used an 11 tooth on front, a 51 on the back and liked it. Currently it has a 13 front and 51 rear. The front is in pretty good shape so must have been replaced. I think it was just used for a trail bike. I plan to order a 12 for the front, a 51 rear and a new chain, keep the 13 for a spare and trash the rest. I don't know what it is about the 11 tooth but it just looks so tiny and low in circumference, it may not be an issue but there are so few teeth engaged at a time? Just my O.C.D. coming out I guess. Any way, 1st gear is so low that I can't imagine requiring less speed than what it currently has so; I will try the 12 and keep the 13 which looks like new in case I want to go back (for all the difference it will make). I have had my 900 doing about 140 mph which is red line in 3rd gear and just basically what it whips up to when enthusiastically passing a car or two on the 4 lane. Hitting it in 2nd gear while doing 60 (be careful or the wheel may lift) takes you to just over 100 mph, give 3rd and 140 is a second and a half away. From a stop she will hit 140 in 10 seconds, that's a quarter mile. Red line is 12,000 RPM for a claimed and doable (I am told) top speed of 187 mph which is where the rev limiter kicks in. Transmission is a 6 speed, bike weighs about 400 making 150 hp crank and 130 hp at the wheel.... and that's Nothing! BMW has a bike making 197 rear wheel hp! However top speed is limited the same as mine and it is only about 1/10th of a second quicker than mine in the quarter mile, it is however infinitely more sophisticated. Also, the BMW speed limiter can easily be bypassed giving it a top end of Well over 200 mph... Where as mine is geared so red line makes the rev limiter kick in (in theory) at 299 kilometers per hour which is where all the manufacturers have agreed to limit their bikes for some time now. So in the case of my bike 299 kmph / 187 mph is all it can do - adequate for commuting I guess. You can change sprockets but then it will not pull red line in top gear, so to me my bike has achieved ultimate balance with no excess: Red line is all she can pull at top allowable speed. The Kawasaki in fact was the 1st mass-produced land machine on the planet to get under 10 seconds in the quarter mile straight out of the show room with stock tires, under a professional driver, even beating out larger displacement bikes for several years to come. If you are sharp and can hang on to it, she is capable of 0-60 mph in under 3 seconds, and it only takes 1st gear (actually 1st will do 75 mph). I however am not that "sharp". 1st gear it will lift the wheel at just over 1/4 throttle, wheelie violently at over 1/2 throttle and punch you in the face with the windshield if you snap it open (or break loose and smoke on down the road). All the above is just bragging rights. Having it I feel I own a piece of Iconia (my word for owning an Icon). The 900 was a signature number for Kawasaki from the 70's and my bike is from the last year they made an ultimate performance 900 which was 2003. It is comfortable and rock solid. In the later years of production it lost to the competition on the track but was unanimously recognized as the best rocket bike for the street, of all the open class super bikes. Alas, people buy numbers and sales suffered until finally Kawasaki made a whole new bike; the ZX10R which shared nothing but a name with the ZX9R. It was faster and better on the track but not as good a street bike. If I was younger and still progressing I might not feel sad, but in a strange manor I really identify with this bike, it maxed and is holding fast. No matter who do what comes next it will always be the 1st to do what she did, set the standard for many years and still is still one Heck of a machine! 20,000 miles and still on the original chain and sprockets adjusters have moved only 2 marks, chain and sprockets are showing no ware. I bought it unseen from Ontario 6 years ago. I flew up to get her, threw my leg over the saddle and my 1st test drive was just over 1000 miles long - and I enjoyed every step of the way. Highway mileage is over 60 mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Nice looking bike. 60 mpg on the highway! That is amazing. You story about acceleration reminds me of a ride I had on a buddy’s bike way back in about 1974. I was riding dirt and also had a Honda CB450 street bike. Buddy took one of the hot ticket Kawasaki’s (I think it was the first 1000 cc, maybe 900)and stripped it down, built the motor and set it up as a café racer. It was a screamer. I took it for a quick ride, front tire came off the ground in 1st and I don’t think it touched again until I backed off in 5th. I wasn’t watching the speedo but I am betting about 120++ mph in 1000 feet. Stopped, brought the bike back to my buddy and said “I’m done.” I know I was very lucky that nothing went wrong. I also knew at the time that I could not own a bike like that because my right hand only knew, on or off the throttle. Fortunately, I knew enough that I did not possess the self-control needed to have a bike like that. Back to the TY. Factory had 13/51 tooth sprockets. I had a ’76 TY175 for a while and it had stock gearing. I remember it being way too fast for the 2 events I rode on it. My buddy has a beautiful TY175 and I think he runs 11 tooth front. With the force it takes to pull the clutch, it is good on these bikes to be geared low enough that you can ride a Novice section on the throttle, not slipping the clutch. If I remember correctly you don’t use the bolt flange on the 11 tooth, you have to use a spacer behind the gear and a circlip to hold the sprocket on. Don’t worry about the few teeth – remember the TY only has about 10 hp. Did you get your son on the bike? How did he do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_56 Posted August 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Spencer had a short ride Yesterday around the yard. Just got on a rode it, no problems. 1974 would have been a 900 Z1, It was the start of a 30 year run with High Performance 900 bikes. I have seen some of those old 900 air cooled bikes "Built Up" that would probably eclips mine at some points of acceleration but probably not have the top end. Still incredible for the era though. Back then they also had a 750 3 cylinder two stroke. The joke expression at the time was that 2nd gear the 750 had enough torque to snap over backwards and smack you on the pavement like a giant fly swatter. The 750 was also hard on gas and had treacherous handling characteristics due to the frame being two much flex for the power. Edited August 3, 2014 by pat_56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 If that tank is cherry or repairable by a dent guy I would shelve it for a Sammy Miller glass tank/ seat so the kids can have a go! Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thats_a_five Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I remember that the bike was the hot ride of that time. Must have been the Z1. I know it took about 5 minutes for my eyeballs to return to their original position after being pushed to the back of my head. Great that Spencer got to ride around and did well. Keep him at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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