john b Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Hi there My son rides twinshock trials on a whitehawk 80 (and does very well, 8th at the weekend in the Scarborough 2 day in twinshock clubman !)- he also rides modern. However at 12 it's getting a little small for him (will definitely be next year) - however the step up to 125/175/200 is a bit much, I have a TL 125 and Sprite 150, both of which are a bit big. I've seen a 1990 fantic 80 big wheel, air cooled mono. Was thinking of putting a new rear subframe on and converting it to twinshock, as a next step ? Any thoughts or comments ? Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slogger Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 how tall is he? im 5ft 5 and have found the bultaco sherpa 175 a really nice ride.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john b Posted July 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Hi there He's not quite 5 foot yet, he rides a beta 80 big wheel no problem, but the bigger twinshocks are a bit heavy. Ok when you're not dabbing but not good if you get in trouble ! Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I'd guess you can expect a lot of disgruntled riders and you may find yourself the subject of a protest and possible exclusion from the result sheet. The bottom line is, it isn't a twinshock so why ride twinshock trials on something that was never a twinshock, something that never actually existed. They're considered by most as cheat bikes, built to gain advantage with results in mind. I can see in your case the circumstances may be different but it doesn't alter the way most riders feel about them. They're not looked upon favourably. A converted Fantic mono is going to have a big advantage over a TY80 or Whitehawk 80. Why not just ride the Fantic in the air-cooled mono class, you still ride the same trials, same sections. Then, when he's grown a bit, move him back onto a twinshock. In the new national twinshock series this weekend, a converted mono was not allowed to compete in the twinshock class and moved to the mono class. The organisers have sent a clear message as to how they feel about them 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Is this the same Woody that argued that montesa yokes, forks and wheels should be allowed on pre 65 bikes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john b Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks for the reply woody It is a difficult one , clearly this is to get a bike which is safe and rideable for another year as ultimately he wants a whitehawk 175, but I think in reality that's at least a year or more away. I saw a couple if converted monos at the weekend at Scarborough and that got me thinking. Agree on riding in air cooled mono class, but some either don't have the class, or as at the weekend they have to ride the hard route. The subframe bolts off the fantic so I planned to make a whole new back end so easily swapped between the two if needed. I came into trials from mx, so just wondered, back in 'the day' what was the logical step after big wheeled whitehawk ? Ty175 ? - just seems a big jump to me in size and weight Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Is this the same Woody that argued that montesa yokes, forks and wheels should be allowed on pre 65 bikes ? Yes, don't see the relevance. Pre65 rules are a joke. Build a brand new 2014 James, Bantam or Cub out of all new parts for £7 - £10k and you can ride Pre65 on a bike that looks nothing like. Fit a pair of yokes, forks and wheels from a 40 year old bike to an otherwise standard 1959 C15 and you're in the specials as it has non-Pre65 components. In one club, just altering the shock mounts on an otherwise original bike puts you in the specials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks for the reply woody It is a difficult one , clearly this is to get a bike which is safe and rideable for another year as ultimately he wants a whitehawk 175, but I think in reality that's at least a year or more away. I saw a couple if converted monos at the weekend at Scarborough and that got me thinking. Agree on riding in air cooled mono class, but some either don't have the class, or as at the weekend they have to ride the hard route. The subframe bolts off the fantic so I planned to make a whole new back end so easily swapped between the two if needed. I came into trials from mx, so just wondered, back in 'the day' what was the logical step after big wheeled whitehawk ? Ty175 ? - just seems a big jump to me in size and weight Cheers John I understand why you are looking to do it, and as I mentioned, your circumstances are different from someone just looking for an advantage. It's the latter I can never understand, someone wanting to build the most competitive twinshock that isn't actually a twinshock. There's nothing different about a twinshock trial. It's just a trial, with sections. The difference is in the bike you ride and most do it as they have some sort of affinity with one old bike or another as it's what they rode years ago and for a bit of nostalgia, want to ride one again. Whether it's because they just like the way they rode or liked the look of them, the exhaust note, or whatever, it's generally about nostalgia and enjoying riding that bike, or bikes. Over the course of the year I'd guess I ride my Bultaco or Ossa in more modern trials than classic. The 'name' of the trial has no bearing for me. It's about the bike. In your lad's case, I don't really know what bike you can move to next, to fill the gap to a bigger twinshock. Converting the Fantic though, I still don't understand the enjoyment factor as it's a mono Fantic whichever way you look at it, so has no twinshock provenance at all, so it's not really riding a twinshock bike. That's just my personal view though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Yes, don't see the relevance. The relevance is, take a twin shock, revalve the forks, change the steering angle, completely change the exhaust etc etc - and its still a twin shock Bodge a couple of shocks onto an air cooled mono and your the anti christ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) My son started classic Trial with 10 on a TY125, too large and heavy, then we bougth a Fantic 50 ( witch has the same frame as the 80 ) and he was happy.... [/url two years later I build a 125 special for him with wheels, swingarm and forks from a Fantic 80, very good youth trailer now he rides my TLR200.... Edited July 8, 2014 by hendrik 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Anti-christ.... - don't be such a drama queen. I assume you see nothing wrong with the concept, so why not an early GasGas Contact, Beta Zero, or why not a GasGas Raga. What's the difference? I'm hardly in a minority of one with my view on converted monos. In the end it's up to people to do what they want and organisers to say whether they accept them or not. In this case they didn't as the intention of their series is to encourage riders to bring out their 70s and 80s twinshocks. It's what they want to see people riding in their events. The bike that was excluded also had modern forks and a bottom end motor that looks more like a later water cooled version than the aircooled one. It wasn't just the fact they deemed it to be a converted mono that resulted in it not being accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) John ; I've got a FM330 (big wheeled Fantic 50 twinshock ) and fantic built the same bike in 75/80 cc . Fantastic bike for my boys to ride , light, handles great , and is in need of a overhaul at this point . Ours is a 79 , but they made them for a few years . Find one of those and there will be no rules debate !!! Glenn Hendrik posted while I was typing , Same model bike !!! Edited July 8, 2014 by axulsuv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john b Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks guys FM330 looks a good bet - if I can find a one ! If I can get the mono fantic at a good price I might get it anyway and decide what to do with it. The intent is just to have something for my son to carry on riding twinshock for the next few years until he is 'big bike' ready Understand previous comment on riding twinshock in 'normal' trials - we do that on easy trials but I think it will be a struggle on some club trials - that's when he rides his beta 80 It's amazing the positive comments we get when people are Christopher ride, that its good to see youths in classic trials He had a real following at the weekend and some really positive comments on his riding when he was cleaning sections Hopefully there is an answer in there somewhere for the next bike for him Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john b Posted July 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Ps - great photos Hendrik ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wobbler Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) My "Ten Penneth Worth" !!!! Buy the air cooled mono and find Fantic 50 twinshock frame !! swap the engine then you can swap it back for Air cooled Mono .....I believe the engines are the same ...... Or get a TLM 50 Honda .......Peter Gaunt rides one well.... Either way good luck. Cheers The Wobbler Edited July 8, 2014 by wobbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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