b40rt Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 how you can say that was well ridden shows your total lack of comprehension of what the final scores of any trial should reflect. Tony may be given some lenience in a world round in UK but to expect him to come over and enter the SSDT and compete against Dougie in an event observed by Brits is never going to happen. Bizarre comment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Tony may be given some lenience in a world round in UK but to expect him to come over and enter the SSDT and compete against Dougie in an event observed by Brits is never going to happen. Why not? All the WTC foreign regulars used to ride it years ago and some won it. Why any different now? As for no-stop rules being impossible to observe - total rubbish. There was just as much controversy, variance and incorrect observing when the rules were stop allowed but no reversing. Riders rocking back and forward when stuck, rolling backwards, and blatantly maneouvering the bike backwards against the run of the section by hopping front and back wheels sideways but in a backwards direction, were regular occurrences that went unpenalised Whether no-stop is the right decision for WTC is a different argument but don't blame the rule for poor observing decisions. They were there under stop allowed too. And people in the crowd are just as much to blame, putting observers under terrible pressure by hooting, screaming, sounding air horns and applauding riders when it's obvious they have incurred a 5. The rider presents their punch card to the observer with applause and airhorns going off - what would most people do? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Are you kidding? Why do you think the applause has anything to do with the score? Couldn't it be that people are just impressed with the riding skills? That was at least my impression at the Belgian round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Are you kidding? Why do you think the applause has anything to do with the score? Couldn't it be that people are just impressed with the riding skills? That was at least my impression at the Belgian round. Even when they've obviously fived the section and the crowd are still urging them on? - yes I do think it makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Why not? All the WTC foreign regulars used to ride it years ago and some won it. Why any different now? As for no-stop rules being impossible to observe - total rubbish. There was just as much controversy, variance and incorrect observing when the rules were stop allowed but no reversing. Riders rocking back and forward when stuck, rolling backwards, and blatantly maneouvering the bike backwards against the run of the section by hopping front and back wheels sideways but in a backwards direction, were regular occurrences that went unpenalised Whether no-stop is the right decision for WTC is a different argument but don't blame the rule for poor observing decisions. They were there under stop allowed too. And people in the crowd are just as much to blame, putting observers under terrible pressure by hooting, screaming, sounding air horns and applauding riders when it's obvious they have incurred a 5. The rider presents their punch card to the observer with applause and airhorns going off - what would most people do? Woody , your absolutely right in your posting about the rules. The big thing that's changed that keeps many of the big World riders away from the SSDT is the level of professionalism that's increased. These days the riders dont compromise and riding wholly different type of events. It's all proper hard riding and all very serious .Wc sections and nothing else which might spoil the flow. So many riders have problems riding enduro and trial as it's speed one weekend , then trials and no speed the next. There's a worry amongst the top riders that firstly the change in riding style for the SSDT might undermine thier World efforts. Secondly the Honda management told me that this is another game entirely and a few slack dabs can lose him the event . He isn't prepared to ride an easier event like this where he can't pull back slack marks. Agree or disagree , these are the reasons I was told Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinshocked Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) As for no-stop rules being impossible to observe - total rubbish. There was just as much controversy, variance and incorrect observing when the rules were stop allowed but no reversing. Riders rocking back and forward when stuck, rolling backwards, and blatantly maneouvering the bike backwards against the run of the section by hopping front and back wheels sideways but in a backwards direction, were regular occurrences that went unpenalised Whether no-stop is the right decision for WTC is a different argument but don't blame the rule for poor observing decisions. They were there under stop allowed too. True words. The worst thing about Non Stop has been the overheated overreaction by those that favor Hop and Stop. Edited July 26, 2014 by twinshocked 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Even when they've obviously fived the section and the crowd are still urging them on? - yes I do think it makes a difference. Despite a five, the contender still could have ridden in an impressive way, or the crowd might think he could use some sympathetic support. I'm just saying it might be done with the best intentions. I don't know how mean the crowds are in your nick of the woods, but here in Belgium I didn't sense much hostility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschrauber Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 how you can say that was w toell ridden shows your total lack of comprehension of what the final scores of any trial should reflect. ... At first, so this particular ride was a really bad ride? It would be interesting to know why it is in your opinion not so well ridden in terms of skills. I 'am watching WCT now for a really long time and it doesn't happen often to see a rider which a stalled engine that managed to restart his motor on the fly while going through the section. And I have been to some personal In Europe. You might read again my previous post about the scores a rider will get, it's up to the observer in the section to jud.ge the rider and I respect his evaluation. The observer is the one that is standing there the hole day long looking at every rider that goes through his section. The observers are the ones that have a full picture of how good or bad the rider will manage to ride through. As a spectator you have to stay at this section the complete day and from the very first beginning to get as much information as the observer. And as already mentioned before the observer was very pleased with the ride, so he judged a zero. This evaluation is with to discuss but it will not change the result, but as we don't have other information, just this one ride l - for my part - can't see a failure, if there would have been one, the other teams / riders have protested, - as they are all professionals -, but they haven't, so everything seems to be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinshocked Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 At first, so this particular ride was a really bad ride? It would be interesting to know why it is in your opinion not so well ridden in terms of skills. I 'am watching WCT now for a really long time and it doesn't happen often to see a rider which a stalled engine that managed to restart his motor on the fly while going through the section. And I have been to some personal In Europe. You might read again my previous post about the scores a rider will get, it's up to the observer in the section to jud.ge the rider and I respect his evaluation. The observer is the one that is standing there the hole day long looking at every rider that goes through his section. The observers are the ones that have a full picture of how good or bad the rider will manage to ride through. As a spectator you have to stay at this section the complete day and from the very first beginning to get as much information as the observer. And as already mentioned before the observer was very pleased with the ride, so he judged a zero. This evaluation is with to discuss but it will not change the result, but as we don't have other information, just this one ride l - for my part - can't see a failure, if there would have been one, the other teams / riders have protested, - as they are all professionals -, but they haven't, so everything seems to be OK. Maybe its just me but that made no sense whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschrauber Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Maybe its just me but that made no sense whatsoever. I just explained that there are rules in sport and there is the spirit of sport. Sometimes the spirit of sport is higher rated then the rule. And please remember it wasn't me observing the ride, it was someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tltel Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 pschrauber, it sounds like you are suggesting that the rules are irrelevant and the observer gives points on his/her opinion of the riders skill. Its not ice skating, its observed Trials! TLTEL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 After reading this I am pretty glad I did not waste my time and money attending Nord view. The crowd at a local evening hillclimb (Aysgarth / Bambridge AMCA) was at least as big as Nord View. I have observed quite a few trials over the past few months including a national championship round. This means I must have given several thousand scores. Only twice has my scoring been questioned and neither of those were whether it was a stop or not. I know of several other observers who have had similar positive experiences, however none of them will observe at WTC because of the antics of the riders, minders and the crowd. I agree with Woody that the problem was just as bad under stop permitted. My view of WTC in now pretty well "sod it" I can't be bothered with this pointless rule bending circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 pschrauber, it sounds like you are suggesting that the rules are irrelevant and the observer gives points on his/her opinion of the riders skill. Its not ice skating, its observed Trials! TLTEL The rules are irrelevant if Bou didn't get a five for stalling and balancing while restarting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinshocked Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) I just explained that there are rules in sport and there is the spirit of sport. Sometimes the spirit of sport is higher rated then the rule. And please remember it wasn't me observing the ride, it was someone else. I understood your comments her Professor, but they are the result of flawed logic. Edited July 27, 2014 by twinshocked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 After reading this I am pretty glad I did not waste my time and money attending Nord view. The crowd at a local evening hillclimb (Aysgarth / Bambridge AMCA) was at least as big as Nord View. If you weren't there, how do you know this? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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