Shirty's Comment On Next Yrs Wc

[stormy normy]

I always enjoy JS Jnrs Gas Gas updates and was interested to read his comment about the WC riders are disillusioned and there will maybe only 10 riders next year. Would Jnr like to elaborate or can anyone else shed some light on this subject ?

Stormy

[cleanorbust]

How about disgruntlement with the non-stop rule/boredom with similarity of sections/lower order riders finding sections are bit beyond them?

[baldilocks]

Cost / lack of funding ?

[neils on wheels]

I can understand Michael Brown's disillusionment. He probably earns next to nothing, it may even cost him, to compete in the WTC. He probably fives 2/3 of the sections in every round & finishes in the bottom few. Why would you?

I suspect he & others may conclude they are better off being employed, or at least part funded, by an importer to ride national trials & a national championship.

[nigel dabster]

I think most people would agree with you. Except most people couldnt ride such hard sections compete with the best in the world and at the year end say, i was 12th or whatever at my chosen sport?

Riding nationals can be a lottery and a daft 5 for dibs or browny could be a 2nd place and no win bonus so that national just cost them money?

Two sides to both story.

[baldilocks]

12th in the world sounds fantastic until you mention only 14 started. Success criteria for any future change in rules needs to be 25 - 30 entrants for the top course.

[nigel dabster]

in 2014 why?

If only 15 can actually compete then so be it?

F1 has 22 cars so the driver thats 17th isnt any good?

We all need to be more objective, there are many problems at the top level at WTC and pretty much everything the FIM have done has made it worse.

However to have a section (s) that eddie karlson can attempt and may take a mark off Bou and raga is very very difficult.

We know there are probably only 25 riders in the world who could ride such a route and if that is the case then why are the bottom 10 not riding?

This is the question the FIM have failed to ask anyone afaik.

[eddie_lejeune]

in 2014 why?

If only 15 can actually compete then so be it?

F1 has 22 cars so the driver thats 17th isnt any good?

We all need to be more objective, there are many problems at the top level at WTC and pretty much everything the FIM have done has made it worse.

However to have a section (s) that eddie karlson can attempt and may take a mark off Bou and raga is very very difficult.

We know there are probably only 25 riders in the world who could ride such a route and if that is the case then why are the bottom 10 not riding?

This is the question the FIM have failed to ask anyone afaik.

I have always said, mark it that karlsson can get 6 cleans a lap, that will give more people and interest to participate.

[breagh]

The riders are getting humiliated,last result I saw Dabill had dropped 66 to Raga's 2?

It's a joke I bet there's very little difference in there abilities.

We've let the "bikes" develop to a point any marginal difference in ability is amplified.

It's the same at every level from club upwards.

Until these motorised pogosticks are limited to some degree the situation will continue.

[gizza5]

Baldilocks has a point any of us could enter all the WTC and come 14th or 15th in the World I doubt any sponsors will be willing to invest in us?

Comparing it to F1 albeit comparing numbers in the top of a Motorsport is the only similarity? The car sitting at the back of the grid at every F1 this season will be running probably a million pound budget how many of the top 10 in the world of trials make money out of the sport? Probably the same number back in the 70's and 80's but with a lot more people competing.

Maybe if the FIM want more people to compete then they are looking at ways to do this, no stop may have worked but in reality it never was with modern bikes sections and riders/observers perception of what is actually a stop?

The other way to go is limit it to numbers through a qualifying process and make it an elite sport, but you would need some serious sponsors and backers? I suppose the sport to look at is downhill mountain biking lots of entrants and the sport, sponsors, spectators etc. are huge

[eddie_lejeune]

Baldilocks has a point any of us could enter all the WTC and come 14th or 15th in the World I doubt any sponsors will be willing to invest in us?

I suppose the sport to look at is downhill mountain biking lots of entrants and the sport, sponsors, spectators etc. are huge

anybody can ride a mountain bike down a hill thats the difference

[dadof2]

The simple fact is that on average Bou and Raga are quite a step up from the rest, had Bou not had his pre season injury he may well have had the title tied up by now.

The 3 laps of 12 sections format does not help, there is too little variety in obstacle type and severity.

Suppose the format was 2 laps of 20 sections, 8 "easy sections", 6 medium and 6 hard.

The sections could be eased considerably if 5 for a stop was properly applied, leniency in marking is leading to increasing section severity, disheartening for the lower ability riders.

A few years ago I was talking to a pre stop era SSDT winner and he forecast the increasing incidence of knee injuries due to the hop and stop technique and just look at how many rider are or are have had their careers blighted by knee injury.

[neils on wheels]

anybody can ride a mountain bike down a hill thats the difference

And anybody can ride a motorcycle between some flags.

The similarity that you are missing is that few people could ride a mountain bike down a World Cup course, fewer still at the speed required to be competitive. This is the similarity with trials, lots of us can ride, very few of us could even get through a WTC section.

The difference is that the watching public &'sponsors can understand downhill mountain biking. Fastest rider wins & the results are instantly available and updated as each rider crosses the line every minute or so. Trials requires an appreciation of subjective rules and the results emerge after several hours of riding and then some arithmetic.

It's been noted here before. Far larger crowds attend the MTB downhill World Cup in Fort William compared to the WTC. More crowds, more sponsors, more customers, more funding, more competitors. It's a virtuous circle that trials has failed and probably always will fail to replicate.

[ludescotty]

just as a note with mountain biking - every man and his dog has a mountain bike in the garage, the number of people doing trials, either just riding for fun or competing is massively lower.

also I don't understand why people want to limit the bike or manufacturers, the bikes have improved and always will that's what people want. my dad is the same, he used to ride fast road bikes, now he is getting old he moans saying the bikes are getting too fast etc.

I personally don't like the no stop rules, its much more fun for me to ride stopping and hopping which is what I practice etc. one bit that is annoying is that watching some of the videos on here at all the 5s at wtc level, then we ride a club trial and get fived straight away for any sort of stop as per the rules, why aren't they sticking to the rules.

I practice at the same place a few btc riders practice and they are all of the same feeling, its not working. however it would be good to get a bit more of an insite into the importers views.

I certainly don't profess to have the answers or even know the best way forward, I do think the wtc needs easing slightly, as with club trials I would say it only needs 1-2 sections to sort the winner out, the rest of the sections set accordingly to so the rest of the entrants aren't killing themselves.

[gizza5]

anybody can ride a mountain bike down a hill thats the difference

Ridden the odd SSDT and been to watch the downhill mountain bike course at Annoch Mor I would take my trials bike down the course but not a prayer on one with pedals? That's the difference!