d250b Posted August 14, 2014 Report Share Posted August 14, 2014 I've just refitted the clutch onto my 190 and obviously as a first-time I've tried to follow the manual to the letter. I've adjusted the nuts whilst holding in the clutch and working the kick start and I think I've got the plates nice and true. However this means that the holes in the nuts for the lock wire are all over the place. When I dismantled the clutch they were nicely in line so that the lock wire made a nice loop and I've seen a photo of similar elsewhere on the forum. If I adjust the nuts to make the lock wire look tidy will I not be upsetting the alignment of the plates? Also, how on earth do you manage to torque the flywheel nut to 95 ft/lbs?? I got the clutch nut to 75 but I've managed to mangle a clutch holding tool in trying to get the flywheel to 90!!! I've got it to above 80 as I was torquing up in stages but I hope that will be enough and with the lock wire it will be ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 hello i just set my clutch up on my 198A iv'e all ways just slightly turn the nuts so it makes a nice loop. never had a problem. has for the flywheel and the clutch basket and weight F/sprocket i have never torq these down just make sure there tight.the clutch basket and weight should have a locking star washer on there. the flywheel should have a flat washer and a spring loaded washer. hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullylover Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 (edited) I always remember the torque of the primary nut as being 95 foot/pounds but on here I was told it is 75 foot/pounds so 80 should be fine with some lock wire on it. I always wire the clutch nuts up without moving them wherever the holes are. It might look untidy but who looks inside your primary case except you. You have the clutch adjusted right so just wire it up. The last time I had mine off I forgot to wire them up and it has done two trials now. I am waiting on a new primary chain in the mail so I`ll hold off pulling it apart until it gets here. Edited August 16, 2014 by bullylover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d250b Posted August 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 Thanks for that folks, I've done what I think is a bit of a compromise between your two suggestions. Just hope that I've followed the manual properly in setting it up. If I made an analogy with looking at a buckled wheel from above and using the nuts to straighten it out then thats what Ive tried to do. Anyway got it all done up and went to put the case on and discovered yet another ******* stripped thread, for the bolt at the front in the locating sleeve. That will be the third 'time-sert' I've had to use and there's other ones been helicoiled before me. not sure whether it's just the age of the bike and the number of times the bolts have been in and out or over tightening in the past. I bought myself an expensive torque wrench for this rebuild just to try and avoid this sort of thing........maddening... thanks again D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 probley over tightening. if 3 have strip test the others before you put the case on that way you can helicoil the rest if needed. you don't need an expensive torque wrench. mine was only £40 laser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Aluminium castings in those days were not as strong as these days also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 may be so. but they must have been strong to last 30 plus years all my cases on all my bikes are in good condtion.and all the threads are good. like i said above more than likely been over tightened by some 1 being heavy handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Check the depth of the thread as well as sometimes bolts that are too short are put in and strip, but there is enough thread left for the correct length bolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d250b Posted August 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 Thanks Woody, According to my parts list I should have 5x30mm bolts, 2x35mm bolts and the drain bolt, however when I took it apart I had two bolts that were at least 40mm and another one of similar length used as the drain bolt. I took careful note of which holes each bolt came out of when I realised they were different lengths. One of the too-long ones was in the hole that is stripped. On the parts list the hole thats stripped is shown as the one with the 30mm bolt in it. (Should say that my list is for a M159 and I have a M190 so if anybody can let me know if things are different on the 190 I'd really appreciate it. I've just been working on the assumption that they were all pretty similar) The parts list only shows one of each length so therefore I only know where one of the 35mm ones should be and not the other, any idea which one this should be in??? I've bought new stainless ones of the right length to do it but i obviously don't want to cock up yet another thread by putting in a bolt thats too long. Bondy. re the torque wrench, mine was only £40 quid as well but to me that's expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 oh yes i for got your scottish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d250b Posted August 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 I think if you knew how much id spent on this bike so far it would go some way to dispelling the myth about Scots being tight!!!! I think the bike will have to be buried along with me because there's no way on earth I'd get the £ back if I sold it that's for sure.......... And the torque wrench was actually worse, it was £45!!! It's a Teng which I thought were supposed to be quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted August 16, 2014 Report Share Posted August 16, 2014 i bought the laser torque wrench for the head bolts.then though i may as well use it on the rest off the bike. i bought a draper 1 also as the laser didn't have the higher torque. any way you never get your money back am in the same boat iv'e just spent ££££££££££££££££ on my 198A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpated Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 I can feel your pain d250b, Iv'e been fixing my engine up on my 350 159, and run into similar problems with different lenth bolts on the clutch and flywheel side. The previous owners had been a bit heavy handed and careless. Especially the drainbolt on the clutch side was too long . When I stripped the clutch to replace it I couldnt understand why it kept on leaking oil.I thought I'd drained all the oil from the clutch side, but on further investigation ,it turned out to be gearbox oil dripping out fro the drain plug hole. The drain bolt was to long and had been forced through creating a hole to the gearbox. For now ,I just screw it back in to stop it leaking, but I will be getting this welded up when I split her open this winter and replace the crank bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted August 17, 2014 Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 on the drain bolt on the clutch side there should be a fiber washer. i know this won't sort your problem out if the threads are strip if it was me id just have them all re taped or helicoiled or enver better corbon steel inserts. with correct lenth bolts. i would get this done proper unless your handy doing it yourself. ideal it needs to be a drill press to get the holes drilled 100% stright some fool did it to a barrel i once had put um in all over the place had to have all 4 done. and 1 off the rods had snaped off right at the bottom so had that done also. worth getting done propper tho if you do have it done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d250b Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Hi Sherpated, you're lucky you had some oil in it when I went to drain mine there was but a spoonful in the casing thankfully i had decided to change the oil before i used it but I've no idea how long it had been like that?? the main clutch bearing was goosed so thats been changed now too, I just hope theres been no damage to the plates or anything else. I understand the clutch plates are only a few years old with little use and they are the modern BultacoUK ones. There was quite a bash in the casing and a hairline crack which was able to weep oil rather than 'leak' it out I'd say and I would have thought it unlikely to have shed 300ml this way but I don't know. one of the crank seals was in quite a state and i wonder if it's possible some of the oil made its way into the crank this way? I think I should probe the thread holes to check on depth before I reassemble. I hope you can get your casing sorted, I'm lucky that our local blacksmith is a dab hand with the tig welder and he sorted both the casing and my gouged fork leg as good as new! D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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