Ty 175 Kickstarter Assembly-Problems

[mmmexico]

Back again...no sooner have you guys helped me see the light with my pressure plate, than I run into new issues with the kickstarter. I picked up a new kickstart lever and it's mounting hardware from TY Trials, as well as a new return spring. When I reassembled the unit and closed up the case all seemed well. I could push down on the lever and the starter would activate and the kickstart lever would return to its proper place...i.e. not touching the side case. After a few tentative dabs, the main shaft moved out about a half of an inch and when I pushed down on the lever it did not want to release promptly and when I gave it a couple of jiggles, it appeared to have moved out of the recess in the case which acts as a stop and the whole kichstart lever moved forward and rested on the case...and it wasn't completely releasing, i.e....it continued to be engaged with the motor. I could get it to release by jiggling it.

I am about to buy all new pieces from TY Trials...including the shaft and the associated gears. Do I need to do this or am I missing something?? The one odd thing about my kickstart assembly is the the spring guide is a machined piece of metal and it is retained on the shaft with a circlip. I don't see this in part books. What I see is a white plastic piece that apparently is not retained at all.

It distinctly feels like there should be a spacer or some mechanism which keeps the shaft and the associated gears and springs tight against the right side case to insure that the return stop is engaged and doing its job. In my case, some assembly error or worn piece is allowing the shaft and the stop to pop out.

What should I look at, and what do you think needs replacing. I am going to take it apart tomorrow, so if you want pictures and can post some...

Thanks in advance

Mike

http://meditarivemachinery.blogspot.com/

[feetupfun]

Yes please post photos. I have one apart at home I can compare yours to

[mmmexico]

Today I disassembled the kickstarter assembly and carefully checked all of the pieces. It is clean and undamaged. All of the various threads look perfect. I reassembled it into the right side case and tried it again. I got the same results (by the way...why would I expect different results...isn't that a type of insanity???). I removed the side case cover and put everything back where it belonged and then operated the kickstart lever. It became very clear that what was happening was that the stop which is located on the end of the kickstart shaft was slipping up and out of the recess in the side case which was ment to be the kickstarter stop. Below is a picture of the area which clearly shows the grinding or sliding marks left by the stop.

I can see that one solution would be to simply add a couple of shims to the end of the kickstarter shaft (inboard of the side case) which would have the effect of holding the shaft in place. I would rather not do that. Obviously Yamaha designed this mechanism to operate without such shims. I would prefer to reassemble the mechanism with factory correct pieces and have it perform as intended. I am really not looking for a "bodge" solution. There are two other issues with the mechanism that I question. First is the spring guide which appears to be some sort of teflon piece in most of the parts books that I have seen. Below is a picture of mine which is metal and retained by a circlip. Could it simply be too short? It is slightly over 16mm long. Below is a picture. Do any of you have a longer spring guide?

Secondly, my Haynes Manual indicates that the friction clip which attaches to the kickstarter pinion has the important job of "causing the kickstarter pinion to run up its quick thread and into engagement.." Apparently the friction clip can wear or change the grip with which it holds the pinion. A procedure is described for checking the tension. I would just as soon buy a new one, but the problem that a failed friction clip can cause does not appear to be my problem. My problem is that the stop on the kickstarter shaft rides up and out of the right side case.

I understand and I constantly read that the kickstarter on these bikes is a known weakness. I am guessing that there are at least a couple of guys on this form that can shed some light on this problem. My problem is compounded by the fact that I can not just drop in on my local vintage Yamaha expert and have him sort out my problems over a cup of tea...or a glass of Guinness. There are no vintage motorcycles where I live. Hell, there are not even any Yamahas. All the bikes were made in China. I can get parts and I can get tools...but I have to do everything else myself.

I hope to tap into some of your collective wisdom

Mike

meditativemachinery

[andy.t]

Hi, if a couple of shims will fix it then add a couple. Its only a kick start after all. As my Dad would say...it will probably see me out

[feetupfun]

One of the weaknesses of the TY175 kickstart is that the stop is not very well fixed to the shaft. The usual problem this causes is that the kickstart shaft over-rotates when returning, which causes the head of the clamp screw on the kickstart lever spline to punch a hole in the casing.

I've included a photo showing how that stop should look ie square and flush

The other thought I had was that you have not shown what your cover looks like - I'm wondering if you are using one of the YZ125C/X covers which might have a different dimension to the inside of the steel bush for the kickstart shaft. The cover I've shown is a TY175 cover

[mmmexico]

Thanks for the suggestions. I re-examined the kickstart shaft and the stopper on the end is square and well fixed. In fact, after a few kicks the kickstarter does over-rotate and causes the clamp screw to try to punch a hole in the side case cover. This is what happened when I laid the bike up about ten years ago. As a result of that damage I tried to have the side case cover repaired locally by a guy at a VW repair shop who knew something about welding aluminum. He closed up the damage, but the case warped and became worthless. What I am using now for a side case cover is something I got off of ebay. It works fine.

My problem, which shows itself as over-rotation is the fact that the return stop on the end if the kickstart shaft slides up and out of the stop which is moulded into the right center case. I'm approaching this problem from two directions. First, I just ordered a new shaft and sliding gear and spacer and friction clip from TY Trials. I will install these when they work their way to Mexico. Secondly, I've placed a couple of largish washers between the end of the spacer and the inside face of the side case cover. These spacers prevent the kickstart lever from moving out and over the stop which is moulded into the center right crankcase. I just happened to have on hand a box (ten to a box) of 16mm washers. I have no idea why I bought these huge things, but they are perfect for this application.

But I still wonder....why (or how) does the kickstart shaft move laterally out of position allowing the stop on the end of the kickstart shaft to leave its recess in the center case? It just appears to be one of those mysteries...It is not because of the used side case cover that I got off of ebay because this behaviour manifested itself initially when a TY side case cover was in place...

Mike

meditativemachinery