2stroke4stroke Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 I must admit I was impressed when I saw someone start up a stone cold Ossa and immediately he was able to ride it on real section going - absolutely crisp and clean. I'm happy to run about for a couple of minutes to warm the bike up though. I don't think electronics are reliable enough, given that we can get good enough performance without them. Let's face it we all probably know at least two people who have had problems with the electronics on the car where the computer diagnosis has not cured it and they have then gone in to parts swap bingo where new items have had to be bought one after the other until the cure is finally found. At no small cost. Not for me thanks if I can avoid it - I accept I can't if I want a car but I hope someone continues to make an easily sorted trials bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Not for me thanks if I can avoid it - I accept I can't if I want a car but I hope someone continues to make an easily sorted trials bike. The have , it's called a 4RT - and it has electrics too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Fi will allow the bike to run clean straight away but you still should warm it up to avoid the chance of a cold seizure.Honda have done a good job on the fi on the 4rt but they have much more experience to draw on and their build quality is far better than any other trials bike .We'll have to wait and see how well Vertigo do it and how well it copes with harsh UK conditions (ssdt will be test)if it's ok there it'll be fine anywhere Good luck to them might give the other manufacturers a shake up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Billy Bolt, Nigel are you now implying that EFI can't cope with a hard riding style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted December 13, 2014 Report Share Posted December 13, 2014 This is going off thread again. Billy doesn't ride a vertigo so kindly leave him out of this discussion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Efi is very successful in the enduro world on 4t, I know enduro 2t efi is in enduro competition, carbs are on their way out. Vertigo has done a nice job, certainly will catch the attention of the other manufacturers. How boring it would be if the bikes stayed the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 Do you think he enjoys what he gets to do for work ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted December 14, 2014 Report Share Posted December 14, 2014 (edited) Do you think he enjoys what he gets to do for work ? I think in two years time he will add his two thumbs to that photo, then after that he won't be hanging his boots up he will be taking them off to count some more!!! Edited December 14, 2014 by gizza5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Thread has gone off topic again, so back to EFI. I do not know what EFI system and components are fitted to the Vertigo and probably neither does any of the others posting. The term EFI covers a range of systems of varying complexity. It may well be in time that EFI gives superior performance to carburettors on 2T trials bikes. Comparing 4T EFI is not really valid because a basic carburettor has drawbacks for trials particularly on single cylinder engines at low speeds. My preference for carburettors on 2T trial engines is based on their low cost and reliability. EFI can never be achieved at this low cost and its inherent complexity means more components to fail. To be fully self tuning EFI needs inlet air mass flow sensing, Lambda and knock sensors. There are oil contamination issues on air flow and Lambda sensors on 2T which are difficult or impossible to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) I wonder if Sherco will take the work they are doing with injection and apply it to their Trials bikes as well seems there is a lot of people trying to crack the 2stroke EFI / DI nut. http://www.enduro360.com/2014/10/16/featured/sherco-injection-two-stroke-action/ Edited December 19, 2014 by michael_t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 On the air flow issue , there is no oil on the intake side , and their are o2 sensors that deal with contaminants , the just run heaters and measure accordingly ... Their are Diesels with O2 sensors !!!! And it may not have to be a total feedback system either ... Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Read the beta thread about the bikes idle speed dropping when pointed downhill. Absolutely ideal on a trials bike. Fuel leaking from bikes when dropped or leant against a bank while the rider walks the section is not ideal from an environmental point of view. My diesel van is on the same pump and injectors from new. Its done 87000 miles, it ticks over at 1000rpm unlike a 4rt and it doesn't flood if parked on a hill. Dont try and tell me efi cant be done for trials bikes, its just a matter of time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 My preference for carburettors on 2T trial engines is based on their low cost and reliability. EFI can never be achieved at this low cost and its inherent complexity means more components to fail. To be fully self tuning EFI needs inlet air mass flow sensing, Lambda and knock sensors. There are oil contamination issues on air flow and Lambda sensors on 2T which are difficult or impossible to overcome. I think we all get your preference by now I know one thing for sure, I don't think you would get very far offering a carburetor conversion kit for a Vertigo though ! good luck with that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shedracer Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Read the beta thread about the bikes idle speed dropping when pointed downhill. Absolutely ideal on a trials bike. Fuel leaking from bikes when dropped or leant against a bank while the rider walks the section is not ideal from an environmental point of view. My diesel van is on the same pump and injectors from new. Its done 87000 miles, it ticks over at 1000rpm unlike a 4rt and it doesn't flood if parked on a hill. Dont try and tell me efi cant be done for trials bikes, its just a matter of time I'd say the 4RT fuel injection is pretty dam good, considering it was designed way back in the early 2000's. Yes it has a high tick over, but that's down to the fact it doesn't have a bloody great battery to supply power to the EFI, just a small capacitor. Of all the bikes I have ever owned, the 4RT has the best owning experience, start very easy and you never have to worry about its fuelling needs. EFI is the way forward, unfortunately for OSSA, they had their fair share of problems, but I believe they are now solved, now they run a battery pack. If and when Honda decide to bring out a brand new bike, the EFI on that should be far superior to the current 4rt, it's likely to be smaller, lighter and more intelligent. I guess most manufacturers would like to use EFI, it's more likely to be a cost thing that stops them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Can you compare EFI reliability on a 4t to 2t ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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