Reliability

[baldilocks]

Cliff Collinson national trial results.

Over a specially adapted course made entirely of inflated inner tubes and used loft insulation a number of Gas Gas riders managed to finish the event.

Expert course 1 - 2 - 3

Just saying

[rosey]

Trials is such a minority market.

Most manufacturers reach into the same parts bins, so a significant amount of stuff is the same across all the brands, or used on one brand then the other at different times.

It seems that in almost every case the new models have problems (going back in time as far as I can recall) and need a few years to come to light and then be corrected. This is the same for a lot of products including motorcars.

All are built to a cost. just like cars. Manufacturers will change component suppliers on cost/availability.. sometimes there are problems... just like with cars.

Development costs are much higher in real automotive (Cars etc.), but per unit sold maybe not. One thing is for sure, failures on cars have much larger legal consequences and safety issues, though I'm told a motorcycle gearbox seizure on the road is no fun.

There is now a large choice of bikes, so it's best to do your own research and pick what you think is best.

They all respond to good maintenance ( that does not mean fitting rim stickers !)

Whilst there are some failure patterns, in trials the bikes are subject to some fair prangs and crashes/drops/drowning etc.. Some of these crash acts/pantomimes are so bizarre that you couldn't script them if you tried. Add these unique scenarios and the on top of the normal failure patterns the potential failure modes are broadened.

Realise they are built to a cost, enjoy the choice, make a selection, but whatever you do, maintain it well.

Edited November 19, 2014 by rosey

[guys]

One small example of what shouldn't happen on a modern reliable bike,

and one of the things that is different from a standard bike and I'm sure this isn't the only improvement the top teams make.:

(A Belgian top rider uses a 7 plate enduro clutch in his Sherco for instance)

See #6

http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/topic/53419-gas-gas-2012-txt-pro-removing-thermostat-help/

Edited November 21, 2014 by guys

[burns1989]

To be fair it's more down to how you look after the bike . If you ride rough a***d you are going to brake things lack of maintenance is for sure a fast way for parts to wear out . Nothing is bomb proof you ask people what is the best street bike a honda yamaha suzuki kawasaki and you will get a mixed bag . Iv owned all four makes and not one was perfect but I still like them all you just have to take it on the chin if something goes wrong and sort it as you would with a beta gass gass sherco and the rest . I think it's more a marketing strategy to get people to fight over what's the best bike when there isn't one. Just my 10 pence on the table

[dadof2]

Thank you B40rt#58. I do not know Gary Mac but I do know other higher level GG riders who change their bikes frequently. I presume the higher level riders of other makes do the same also.

That is one of the reasons why the choice Dougie or any of the top line riders is not a good guide as to what a lower level rider should choose if particularly if he wishes to keep it for some time and has to pay for his own maintenance.

I don’t think I know anything AG “Brownie” does not. I do know what some riders have said and the fact that AG no longer has GG on his website will have caused others to draw the same conclusion I have. In response to Nigel drawing our attention to AG being Sherco dealer of the year I know of several riders who bought Shercos off AG which helped put him in that position. All had previous bad experiences of GG reliability and this was a major factor in their decision to choose Sherco over GG when buying from AG.

Although I have not spoken to Al the spanner for some time I have referred GG owners to him for GG gearbox and other repairs and you will find evidence of this on some of my previous posts.

All makes have problems and as most of you know my opinion is that many of the problems stem from weight reduction.

I actually quite admire the recent models of GG, they have an attractive functional simplicity about them, they are purposeful and competitive, many of the qualities that made the Honda CR500 MXer such a great bike, BUT GG just do not have the solidness, build quality and reliability.

The gearbox and kickstart may be adequate in the hands of god riders who do not keep their bikes that long, but in the hands of Joe average and below over a longer timespan they are just not rugged enough. That is and will remain my opinion until I see a substantial redesign proven over a period of time. The frame and coolant system only need minor improvements.

Nigel, you called me Walter Mitty, well he lived in some sort of dreamland I do not. I was but off buying a Pro because of their poor reliability. GG needs to take note of the concerns of lost customers. You quite like quoting DL, well I remind you that when designing the Vertigo he stated he looked at the strengths and weaknesses of existing bikes and has stressed that the Vertgo gearbox has been tested for two years. It is telling that as a GG rider he has highlighted this. I understand the TRS team have done the same.

GG need to review the reliability of their older privately owned bikes and get the issues sorted. A look at spares sales should give them a fair clue.

I cannot think of any other manufacturer who has sat on such a serious issue as the Pro gearbox for so long without sorting it.

Guys #63 Sherco clutches. This is a not uncommon mod. The standard clutch is fine for most riders but does not perform well when repeatedly dumped in a higher gear at high revs to launch the bike at big steps etc as needed by championship riders. The mod includes separating the gearbox and primary lubricants, meaning a thicker EP oil can be used to protect the gearbox whilst leaving the rider free to choose a thinner oil to give the clutch feel they want.

[nigel dabster]

Thank you B40rt#58. I do not know Gary Mac but I do know other higher level GG riders who change their bikes frequently. I presume the higher level riders of other makes do the same also.

So why single out one make?

That is one of the reasons why the choice Dougie or any of the top line riders is not a good guide as to what a lower level rider should choose if particularly if he wishes to keep it for some time and has to pay for his own maintenance.

So why bring it up in the first place?

I don’t think I know anything AG “Brownie” does not. I do know what some riders have said and the fact that AG no longer has GG on his website will have caused others to draw the same conclusion I have.

Because of something on someones website you reach a conclusion. Big deal. It doesnt make it a fact.

In response to Nigel drawing our attention to AG being Sherco dealer of the year I know of several riders who bought Shercos off AG which helped put him in that position. All had previous bad experiences of GG reliability and this was a major factor in their decision to choose Sherco over GG when buying from AG.

Because you know of a couple of riders who may or may not have done something it doesnt mean anecdotal evidence can damn a brand completely.

i have known many who buy the same brand, gas gas included year after year, which proves, errr nothing.

Although I have not spoken to Al the spanner for some time I have referred GG owners to him for GG gearbox and other repairs and you will find evidence of this on some of my previous posts.

All makes have problems and as most of you know my opinion is that many of the problems stem from weight reduction.

We have been here before and I wont let you slip in your opinions on weight reduction as any kind of fact or evidence. The words that you realise other brands have problems is progress of sorts i suppose.

I actually quite admire the recent models of GG, they have an attractive functional simplicity about them, they are purposeful and competitive, many of the qualities that made the Honda CR500 MXer such a great bike, BUT GG just do not have the solidness, build quality and reliability.

Again I refute this, GG are really reliable now and I have cited success in reliability events and its well known.

The gearbox and kickstart may be adequate in the hands of god riders who do not keep their bikes that long, but in the hands of Joe average and below over a longer timespan they are just not rugged enough. That is and will remain my opinion until I see a substantial redesign proven over a period of time. The frame and coolant system only need minor improvements.

So if someone keeps a bike a long time it may have problems. Do you really think any trials manufacturer considers this? Perhaps you know better than the gas gas engineering r and d but as they have been developing the bike for 10 years i doubt it

Nigel, you called me Walter Mitty, well he lived in some sort of dreamland I do not.

Im sorry but you do. To think that a convicted rapist should be given a second chance as a role model, to think that anyone actually takes you seriously about weight increase = reliability. To think that this crusade against GG is based on sense and reason, to like asian women with few clothes on is a dreamland for sure.

I was but off buying a Pro because of their poor reliability.

Yes but wasnt this the 2003 model you told us about ? If not be more specific tell us why when you bought it new what went wrong and what warranty work was done. Then people might begin to understand.

GG needs to take note of the concerns of lost customers.

They probably have but as its the best selling bike they might be taking that over your opinions.

You quite like quoting DL, well I remind you that when designing the Vertigo he stated he looked at the strengths and weaknesses of existing bikes and has stressed that the Vertgo gearbox has been tested for two years. It is telling that as a GG rider he has highlighted this.

Thats your opinion not DL's. But again you have isolated one thing, doug has ridden 3 brands recently and he is not a GG per se . I note you have conviently failed to mention anything he might have looked at as a 4rt rider.

I understand the TRS team have done the same.

GG need to review the reliability of their older privately owned bikes and get the issues sorted. A look at spares sales should give them a fair clue..

And sales of new bikes the opposite

[nigel dabster]

[atomant]

My name is Ian - I have had this problem for a long time and want to share it with you ... I have been having nightmares about my GG gearbox failing whilst I am on a clean. It sends shivers of dread and fear through my body - I wake up in a sweat and scream at the top of my voice ." NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" - Fortunately, it has never happened ( Gearbox failure or a clean ). I am on medication right now and hopefully will get better in time. Thank you all for listening ...

[zippy]

I am the proud owner of a 2003 GasGas 300 pro. I bought it from the original owner a couple years back. Just need to do maintenance on it, oil, lube, etc.. nothing lasts forever. I had more problems with the 2000 Sherco 2.9 I had before the Gasser. The GasGas is older, it is getting tired, but DAMN she runs good and has improved my riding greatly. If I could afford to I would buy a brand new GasGas 300.

The Gasser has NOT had a gearbox failure, it is on it's second kick start lever, and clutch cover (which broke not because of kickstarting). If things are loose they break/wear. I refute the statements that GasGas are unreliable.

All bikes have their faults, and you will have more if you disregard maintenance.

[crazybond700]

I believe the GG are reliable to some point. There is a mix of lightness and reliability, and gg (and other brands) made some choises. Compare it to dragsters, there are cars that fry complete engines each race, but aslong as the get to the finish line quick the owner is happy. If you dont want to spend money and time on maintanance I would recommend a pre-pro model, which are hard solide unbreakable bikes.

If you have a pro, check it all the time for faults and maintain it good, and you will have a great bike!

[baldilocks]

Been to the trial today. My 2014 model bought easter weekend has now consumed 1 set of rear pads 1 pair of grips and one set of front wheel bearings. It could do with a tyre.

Its appalling isnt it.

Al the spanner he thinks you're great. He doesn't know who you are so maybe you can ring him ?

[perce]

I don’t think I know anything AG “Brownie” does not. I do know what some riders have said and the fact that AG no longer has GG on his website will have caused others to draw the same conclusion I have. In response to Nigel drawing our attention to AG being Sherco dealer of the year I know of several riders who bought Shercos off AG which helped put him in that position. All had previous bad experiences of GG reliability and this was a major factor in their decision to choose Sherco over GG when buying from AG.

My conclusion is that you should stop casting aspersions about other peoples businesses ie spouting utter *****, stick to trawling the web for Asian women.

Also my mate is also sick of you spouting crap about his & other peoples businesses, he also suggests you should stick to trawling the net for Asian women.

Edited November 23, 2014 by perce

[burns1989]

I think things are getting out of hand here. At the end of the day as long as u are on a trials bike of any brand having fun it shouldn't matter to any one what make of bike you ride at least it's more people out and about having fun .

[burns1989]

I think things are getting out of hand here. At the end of the day as long as u are on a trials bike of any brand having fun it shouldn't matter to any one what make of bike you ride at least it's more people out and about having fun .

[lineaway]

My name is Ian - I have had this problem for a long time and want to share it with you ... I have been having nightmares about my GG gearbox failing whilst I am on a clean. It sends shivers of dread and fear through my body - I wake up in a sweat and scream at the top of my voice ." NNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" - Fortunately, it has never happened ( Gearbox failure or a clean ). I am on medication right now and hopefully will get better in time. Thank you all for listening ...

I think you are confused with Mark Colomer. Did he not have several transmissions lock up on the prototype and finally quit? Maybe start having dreams about breaking the bars. That`s the worst nightmare of every serious trials rider! Ha! Ha!