hrmad Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Having trouble with downhills... Do you pull the clutch in and just use brakes? Or leave the clutch out and use engine braking? I've been getting conflicting advice from different people, not sure what to do. I find I tend to stall the bike down hill with the clutch out, but my friends say keeping the clutch in will make it more likely to lock up the rear wheel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinshockdude Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Pull the clutch in,stand on the back brake so the wheel is locked solid,control speed with front brake. this works for me 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) Depends on the hill to be honest, if you keep the clutch out and hit the brakes the bike will stall so you need to feather the clutch with the brakes to get the best of both worlds. Locking up the back is not the end of the world, the front brake is taking most of the load and the rear locked up or not on a steep descent is not much of an issue, and a locked rear can in some circumstances help steer the bike. Coming down a very slippy bank with the rear locked up can be an issue if it starts fishtailing, I will never forget a certain section 1 at the Colmore Trial in the Midlands where blind faith/closed eyes, conversion to religion (any would have done at the time) and subsequent prayer were top of the list for the descent as the use of either of the brakes would have been futile. Edited November 19, 2014 by the addict 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourian Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 It's can be a combination of using both engine braking and using brakes, the trick is recognising when then engine is about to stall and pulling in the clutch before it does. Be careful of applying front brake to hard especially if turning whilst going down hill, the front wheel is likely to go from under you if there's little grip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 At slow speed when creeping down sections I have the clutch fully in to prevent stalling the engine, and use both brakes. At higher speed in higher gears between sections use both brakes but leave the clutch engaged. Very occasionally you will get a very slippery hill where you can hardly use the brakes. Use a slightly higher gear (to prevent fishtailing) and leave clutch engaged. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantic240motor Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 If you are at an event in a section watch the other riders, see what they do and imitate it. As mentioned every situation requires different techniques but clutch in and brakes on is going to be the way on any steep decent as you'll have the rear brake on. Always good if the rear brake doesn't lock up but it often will. It'll slow more efficiently if it's not locked up skidding but this is a tricky technique to master especially on steep greasy drops. If you feel the rear is locked and starting to slew sideways release and reapply gently before you start to slide and risk the back end coming round on you. There's lots of trials riding technique videos on youtube. I really enjoy watching them and find them useful. Here's one with some descending tips... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrmad Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Thanks for the advice everyone. I do feel more comfortable pulling the clutch in and using the brakes, I feel like I've got more control over the speed that way. If there is a clear run off then using the engine braking and feathering the brakes seems like a good idea. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordendo Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 IMO the best training for downhill is mountain biking. MTB'ers are experts at descent - it's all we have after all..... Brake modulation is a key concept - the front brake is your best friend and your worst enemy on the mtb.... On the mtb there are very few circumstances where the descent is steep and sustained long enough that sliding the rear brake is required for some semblance of control (I ride in BC....I know what steep is....). Trials, in my limited experience, is the same (as is Enduro). I always have the clutch out and utilize the engine as much as possible. If you're stalling it's probably because you're locking up your rear brake. Clutch in....no control.... Yes, sometimes the rear locks up (clutch in obviously) and it can be advantageous to slide the rear end around, but this is rarely required and IMO a somewhat uncontrolled technique. Personally (as on the mtb) I keep the front wheel weighted so I can modulate the front brake (without lockup) - the more both tires are turning the more control you have. If there's a turn I'll release the front brake and gingerly use the rear (usually not require 'cause I'm probably already creeping) - it's amazing how slowly you can creep down anything but a vertical descent with 'front brake modulation'...... Not sure if that's an actual term but it's what Endless Biking term the technique in their mtb courses. They teach the technique on flat gravel initially. You learn where the lockup point is for each brake independently and then learn to maximize your braking without hitting that point. Then try it on a descent but it's critical that you keep the front weighted. I had to be shown this to get it......ass off the rear of the bike with straight arms (the old north shore style) is just bad technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrmad Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 IMO the best training for downhill is mountain biking. MTB'ers are experts at descent - it's all we have after all..... Brake modulation is a key concept - the front brake is your best friend and your worst enemy on the mtb.... On the mtb there are very few circumstances where the descent is steep and sustained long enough that sliding the rear brake is required for some semblance of control (I ride in BC....I know what steep is....). Trials, in my limited experience, is the same (as is Enduro). I always have the clutch out and utilize the engine as much as possible. If you're stalling it's probably because you're locking up your rear brake. Clutch in....no control.... Yes, sometimes the rear locks up (clutch in obviously) and it can be advantageous to slide the rear end around, but this is rarely required and IMO a somewhat uncontrolled technique. Personally (as on the mtb) I keep the front wheel weighted so I can modulate the front brake (without lockup) - the more both tires are turning the more control you have. If there's a turn I'll release the front brake and gingerly use the rear (usually not require 'cause I'm probably already creeping) - it's amazing how slowly you can creep down anything but a vertical descent with 'front brake modulation'...... Not sure if that's an actual term but it's what Endless Biking term the technique in their mtb courses. They teach the technique on flat gravel initially. You learn where the lockup point is for each brake independently and then learn to maximize your braking without hitting that point. Then try it on a descent but it's critical that you keep the front weighted. I had to be shown this to get it......ass off the rear of the bike with straight arms (the old north shore style) is just bad technique. Thanks for the advice. But there are circumstances where you have to pull the clutch in otherwise you'll stall, like a descent with a camber turn. I went out practicing today and used both the technique of engine braking without clutch and light use of both brakes as well as clutch in, hard on the front brake, light on the rear. Clutch out worked better on longer descents, it was simply easier to let the bike bounce down a slippery, wet and muddy bank than to use the brakes heavily. If you've got to throw the bike into a tight turn at the bottom of a bank pulling the clutch in seems to help. You can't really go super slow down a descent with the clutch out without risking stalling, it's not so bad if you've got a good run off. Horses for courses. I've learned something new about MTB, I thought downhill guys had their asses right on the rear of the bike! Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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