How Much Power?

[pat_56]

A bit of interesting math:

The speed that the piston of a Honda CBR600rr with a stroke of 1.67 inches is moving at 15000 rpm.

Is the same that the piston in a 1690cc Harley Road King with a stroke of 4.4 inches is moving at only 5727 rpm.

[dixie]

Dixie - You are correct about the Beta 200 - most underestimated Trials bike on the market. IMHO. - Brilliant.

I keep recommending them to everyone , So I have bittenbthe bullet and bought a new one..... Well happy...

[dadof2]

I have ridden but never owned a Beta 200 and despite me being heavy the power was plenty enough.

Several years ago at a centre trial there was a graded hillclimb. The bottom part was large radius S bend on slippery grass, the upper part was a straight blast up steep rough grass. 4 riders made it to the top and I think they would be using 4th gear on 250s and 300s. The fifth best attempt was a novice rider on a Beta 200 he made it round the S bends and about 1/3 way up steep bit by letting it plod in 5th gear until it stalled. Rest of the entry spun out on the S bend.

With the ever increasing price and power of top end bikes I think sales of competent bikes in the £4000 to £4500 may benefit and the Beta 200 is ideally situated in this bracket.

Looking back all my best results have been on bikes with less than 20 HP and in 30+ years can count on the fingers of one hand the occasions when I feel I have lost marks due to insufficient power.

Quite a few years ago I was going to Bill & Mick Wilks a few days before the Scott to pick up some bits. I said to a friend (Scott Spoon winner) did he want me to get him anything whilst I was there, His reply "yes, some grip and balance" no mention of power.

Edited December 22, 2014 by dadof2

[guys]

How about some throttle control? Or did they change to on/off switches, when I wasn't looking?

If I have to believe all the horror stories about way to much power, I would have never survived the transition from my 4RT to the GasGas 280 I once owned. I now have a new 4RT, and I like the extra grunt it's got compared to the 250.

To each his own and all that jazz.

[dadof2]

Having raced 500s in MX and ridden 1100s on the road power in itself is not a "survival" issue for me but the top end power that larger 2Ts have is pretty well superfluous for most riders.

A few years ago I rode a 300 GG back to back against a 250 4RT on 3 sections. 2 were greasy climbs with tight turns and 1 was a grippy stream.

On the climbs I could plod up gripping comfortably in second gear on the 4RT. To get up on the gasser I had to use 3rd gear (would not grip in second) and keep my speed up which was more tiring.

In the river I used second on both but the gasser picked up speed more when throttle blipped over the steps and was more tiring.

My present choice of new bike (subject to test rides on exact models) would be a 200 Beta or a 260 4RT, Maybe a 300 Beta 4T (nearly bought one this spring) but very unlikely to be any of the current over 250 2Ts.

[nigel dabster]

Having raced 500s in MX and ridden 1100s on the road power in itself is not a "survival" issue for me but the top end power that larger 2Ts have is pretty well superfluous for most riders.

A few years ago I rode a 300 GG back to back against a 250 4RT on 3 sections. 2 were greasy climbs with tight turns and 1 was a grippy stream.

On the climbs I could plod up gripping comfortably in second gear on the 4RT. To get up on the gasser I had to use 3rd gear (would not grip in second) and keep my speed up which was more tiring.

In the river I used second on both but the gasser picked up speed more when throttle blipped over the steps and was more tiring.

My present choice of new bike (subject to test rides on exact models) would be a 200 Beta or a 260 4RT, Maybe a 300 Beta 4T (nearly bought one this spring) but very unlikely to be any of the current over 250 2Ts.

The examples you give are an insight into your lack of understanding of trials and grip in particular.

One trial and a novice in 5th gets 5th best climb? Really?

My suggestion is you come south and see how grip is almost totally rider related and little if anything to do with power or rather lack of it?

many times lack of power is a benefit to those with lack of throttle control or ability to "read" grip or lack of it.

[nigel dabster]

...and there are more than a few who have chucked in a 4rt cos they cant understand how or why it suddenly finds no grip at all.

[eddie_lejeune]

...and there are more than a few who have chucked in a 4rt cos they cant understand how or why it suddenly finds no grip at all.

Many Many more than a few...........

[b40rt]

...and there are more than a few who have chucked in a 4rt cos they cant understand how or why it suddenly finds no grip at all.

High tickover can't help.

Edited December 24, 2014 by b40rt

[breagh]

Still think they're champion stallers.

If you know what you're doing with them they're ok.

If you're a puddin they can be hard work.

Still fantastic bikes though.

[baldilocks]

Agreed Ross

This is why i was asking about fitting a battery into the 4rt circuit. Could it then be run with a lower tickover if the battery re charged at higher rpm. Needs an alternator as well to recharge

[michael_t]

Hi Pat,

I would caution you about comparing a 250 and 500 2T MX bike with trials the "hit" when things get a little interesting is when a 2T "gets on the pipe" or hits the "power band" and is something you certainly have to get used to on a typical 2T. Trials do not have the same type of characteristic the power is much more linear even on the smaller displacement. The purpose of the bikes is very different as well you seldom wind them WFO and if you do you had better being holding on when you let the clutch go . A local rider put an old Yamaha 80cc motor into a Fantic that had blown its motor and with the right rider that thing can still keep up on the difficult lines at our events. It was funny though when we had a very experienced Enduro rider come out to try the sport he first tried the Fantic then jumped on a GG250 - Got quite the shock as the bike launched itself out from under him... - safety note always point a loaded bike in a safe direction

Anyways just some early morning rambling before heading out to start my X-mas shopping (Figured I would start early this year, I usually wait until the afternoon LOL)

[jml]

15 stone newbie rider here. I've got a Beta 125 and it's plenty of enough power for me. The only thing that's letting me down at the moment is the bikes suspension, the rear squats down and I feel this is adversely affecting the handling of the rear/front. I was thinking about upgrading the rear spring, but as I've been losing weight I'll just see how it pans out. I'll try to get my weight back down to around 12 stone and hopefully this will improve things.

[dadof2]

ND #37 You really do spout some crap especially when you make judgements on things you have not seen.

RE the novice on the 200 Beta. He actually did it twice not just once. The only way anyone was going to get all the way up the hill was in 4th. On the first lap the novice got into 5th by mistake. After seeing what happened to the others he did it deliberately on the second lap with the same result.

The same novice went on the be a club clubman class champion and won a trial outright recently.

Finding grip is to do with both throttle control and power output / engine characteristics anyone who ignores any of these factors is going to be less successful.

The fact is in the circumstances I described the 250 4RT comfortably outgripped the 300 GG 2T and required less rider input to do so.

The limestone step at the end of the section was only about 18 inch to 2 ft high so the bike could be nudged over it at low speed. Had it been a bigger step needing a faster approach it may be that the GG 300 in 3rd would have come out better than the Mont 4T in second. I doubt if the 250 could have managed it round the tight corners in 3rd.

The point I was making was not about throttle control but about how a lower powered bike can be easier on the rider. This was noted in a Beta test last year when the consensus was the Beta 4T were less tiring to ride up the clubman level river sections than the Beta 2Ts. The test was in a magazine whose name cannot be mentioned on this Forum

[s_monty]

I'm a 53 y.o. 15 stone rider, just back into trials after a gap of near 25 years. What has shocked me more than anything is the amount of power available from my '09 300 TXT Pro. Not just that but the rather wicked power delivery.

Then I wonder am I using this as an excuse for the thing being hard to ride when it may be more due to my; age, lack of fitness, length of time away from it????