hannu Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 I took it they had perished long ago, I grease everything on a new bike and if that had been done if the bearing was missing it would have been picked up before the first ride not 10 months later. I've serviced other peoples bikes and seen virtually no signs of a bearing in the dog bones or linkages as they've never been greased or serviced before, just fell out or disintegrated. I'll apologise now if I'm totally mistaken though, and its possible this is a pdi problem not Honda's? Point taken but strange how all the other bearings were clean dry and in full working order ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Was it the rear end of the dog bone? And the bearing that sits closest to the small collar rather than the bush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Was it the rear end of the dog bone? And the bearing that sits closest to the small collar rather than the bush? No it was the one in the swinging arm furthest from the small collar, it just looks like a blank plastic bush with no needle rollers in it. I've order a new bush kit from H & D so I'll photograph the old ones as I remove them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) Tbh, I don't want to offend you, but, if you'd serviced it, somewhere inline with what it suggests in the manual, one, you wouldn't have these problems in the first place, but, two, if the bearing was missing, you'd have got it covered by the warranty. It's generally lack of maintanance that causes the bearings to fail, they need regular cleaning and greasing, it isn't maintaince free, just because it a Honda, I mean Montesa. All the bearings are below. Edited February 1, 2015 by jj65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Tbh, I don't want to offend you, but, if you'd serviced it, somewhere inline with what it suggests in the manual, one, you wouldn't have these problems in the first place, but, two, if the bearing was missing, you'd have got it covered by the warranty. It's generally lack of maintanance that causes the bearings to fail, they need regular cleaning and greasing, it isn't maintaince free, just because it a Honda, I mean Montesa. All the bearings are below. Yes ok I get that I should have lubricated the needles before now however all that are present don't seem to have suffered, clean smearing of the original grease still on and little signs of wear. As for the warranty it clearly states on purchase there is no warranty, If I kicked off no doubt the dealer would supply the bearing but I just haven't the time to take the bike all the way back !! And the point of my post was the quality of the product ie NO BEARING FITTED not my lack of servicing. ( I'm not offended but clearly believe that in this day and age the suggestion in the manual that you should strip and lube the suspension linkage after each event is a bit much, why have seals on the ends if this be the case ?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 In fact I've just read the manual and it doesn't actually refer to lubricating the link just clean and inspect !!! Maintenance schedule Perform pre-ride Inspection at each scheduled maintenance period. I: Inspect and clean, Adjust, Lubricate or Replacement if necessary. C: Clean, R: Replace, L: Lubricate. Item Frequency Each race or about 2,5 h. Every 6 races or about 15 h. Every half a year Every year Remarks Fuel Line I Throttle Operation I Air Cleaner C Check the air cleaner after riding in dusty area Spark Plug I R Valve Clearance I I: After the first brake-in period Engine Oil I R R: After the first brake-in period Engine Oil Filter R R: After the first brake-in period Engine Oil Strainer Screen I Engine Idle Speed I Transmission Oil R Radiator Coolant I R Cooling System I R Piston I R Piston Ring I R Drive Chain I, L Drive Chain Slider/Tensioner I Drive/Driven Sprocket I Brake Fluid I R Brake Pad Wear I Brake System I Clutch Fluid I Clutch System I Control Cables I, L Exhaust Pipe/Muffler I C Suspension I C Check the spherical bearing damage. Swingarm/Shock Linkage I C Fork Oil I R Wheels/Tires I Steering Head Bearing I Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Yes ok I get that I should have lubricated the needles before now however all that are present don't seem to have suffered, clean smearing of the original grease still on and little signs of wear. As for the warranty it clearly states on purchase there is no warranty, If I kicked off no doubt the dealer would supply the bearing but I just haven't the time to take the bike all the way back !! And the point of my post was the quality of the product ie NO BEARING FITTED not my lack of servicing. ( I'm not offended but clearly believe that in this day and age the suggestion in the manual that you should strip and lube the suspension linkage after each event is a bit much, why have seals on the ends if this be the case ?) Who told you theres no warranty, you get 6 months parts warranty, so the dealer would have sent you the part FOC. If the bearing is missing. The seals can only keep out a certain amount of cr*p, so it's good practice to strip, clean and lubricate on a regular basis, on any trials bike. It would appear you have been very unlucky with your bike, but it's not the norm on a mont in my experience and I've had a fair few of them. To be honest, the first thing I do when I get a new bike, is strip it, remove all the unnecessary bits and check and lub everything. Yes, it's a day wasted in the garage, but it's piece of mind and you'll benefit from it in the future. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj65 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 In fact I've just read the manual and it doesn't actually refer to lubricating the link just clean and inspect !!! Maintenance schedule Perform pre-ride Inspection at each scheduled maintenance period. I: Inspect and clean, Adjust, Lubricate or Replacement if necessary. C: Clean, R: Replace, L: Lubricate. Item Frequency Each race or about 2,5 h. Every 6 races or about 15 h. Every half a year Every year Remarks Fuel Line I Throttle Operation I Air Cleaner C Check the air cleaner after riding in dusty area Spark Plug I R Valve Clearance I I: After the first brake-in period Engine Oil I R R: After the first brake-in period Engine Oil Filter R R: After the first brake-in period Engine Oil Strainer Screen I Engine Idle Speed I Transmission Oil R Radiator Coolant I R Cooling System I R Piston I R Piston Ring I R Drive Chain I, L Drive Chain Slider/Tensioner I Drive/Driven Sprocket I Brake Fluid I R Brake Pad Wear I Brake System I Clutch Fluid I Clutch System I Control Cables I, L Exhaust Pipe/Muffler I C Suspension I C Check the spherical bearing damage. Swingarm/Shock Linkage I C Fork Oil I R Wheels/Tires I Steering Head Bearing I Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners I I think you may have read that wrong, I,C: means- I: Inspect and clean, Adjust, Lubricate or Replacement if necessary. C: clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Frequently Asked Questions Warranty Information What does my warranty cover? Your warranty covers the repair or replacement, at American Honda's option, any part which is defective in material or factory workmanship under normal use for the applicable warranty period. For further details please see your warranty booklet. (Competition models are excluded from warranty coverage.) From the USA Honda site. Competition models have no warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mags Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) You boys got me a little worried so I pulled mine apart for the first time today. I have about 30 hrs on my 2014 Cota Standard 4RT. Two comps and about a year worth of practice. I've found no bearings missing and lube sufficient to keep them at a good service life with inspection. The swingarm ones are a little dryish but there was a lube film there. I'll clean, regrease and assemble now. Didn't find any appreciable play in the bearings nor any brinelling on the pivot pins...Yay! Some pics... Mags Edited February 2, 2015 by mags 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mags Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Some more... Mags 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Ah well . Now we get down to the nitty gritty. stripped every linkage and bearing on the chassis before i even did anything from new last year when i bought new. To find what ? Very little or no grease at all on some of the shaft's or bearing assemblies.I was seathing ! They got a rocket up there ass from me . So whoever assembles the chassis isn't greasing as they should and if it's a Honda product ,that name stands for quallity throughout the motor cycle world . Honda are being very nice about my clutch assembly,SO DON'T GIVE UP. Hey mags if that was my bike it would be back at the shop now considdering where you live .It's not on ! Edited February 2, 2015 by shyted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Frequently Asked Questions Warranty Information What does my warranty cover? Your warranty covers the repair or replacement, at American Honda's option, any part which is defective in material or factory workmanship under normal use for the applicable warranty period. For further details please see your warranty booklet. (Competition models are excluded from warranty coverage.) From the USA Honda site. Competition models have no warranty. I get your point here lineaway but that's no reason for poor quallity control and as a purchaser in the UK you have certain right's , no matter what the booklet say's. That phrase in the book is an excuse for unmittagated bad workmanship and paying i guess 8 or 9 thousand dollers for a 4RT in the US i expect you would see your hoop if you got service like that. Please don't think this is a rant my friend because it isn't.especially not directed at you. Trying to get the point across of not accepting the get out clause crap any longer.If they flog you quallity ,then you should get quallity. Lad's open your mouth to Honda UK or wherever you live.If they get enough crap they will want to silence it before it gets out of hand. As a rider to this i have just sent an email to customer service and told them that we are unhappy with the quallity of their product .I will post the respons when it undoubtably comes. Hey guys , as a point of interest how's the 2015 repsol linkages lubrication? Edited February 2, 2015 by shyted 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrsunt Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 If all the other bearings are intact and still in decent shape then get back on to your dealer, they should stand a replacement out of good faith and to keep a customer happy. All warranty issues are done through the dealer network, so a frame no. Still in warranty (I'm sue your dealer can easily sort that) will be required, or the computer will say "no". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Ok so the new bearing should be here tomorrow so I'll take some pic's on dismantling the old one, I know I should have had a rant at the dealer but it was just much easier to order a new original Honda one on line than ring Craigs (another days delay) and then risk the part being on back order like the steering head seal and before you know were you are another week or two gone and two more trials missed. Anyway I'm going to play devils advocate here regarding the dog bone bushes and lubrication, bear with me on this and assume that they have been lubed from day one. How I've been talking to an engineer friend of mine, he test objects to destruction to advise on the optimum time to replace / service. Now if as is suggested by the Montesa manual / some advice on here, you lubricate / strip following each event , you lessen the life of all the parts concerned, you stretch the bolts, you wear the seals faster, you continually break the seal made between the seal and collar and you stand the chance of getting more contaminates (dust) into the bearing. If you just clean the area of all the mud etc after each event you lessen the effect of the dirt wearing away at the seal or build up of contaminates around the seal. If you place a new dog bone and linkage in water the bearing will remain clean and dry as the seal will / should prevent water getting in, the more times you dismantle and break that seal the more wear you create shortening its life !!!! Does that make sense? Its just a case of finding that optimum time to strip clean and re-lubricate, which will differ for each person After all Honda say you should replace the piston every year, now hands up how many of you do that ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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