twinshocked Posted February 14, 2015 Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 If you read the thread I didn't actually say the bearing was missing, I said the needle rollers were missing . I did read the thread. You you said the rollers were missing (post #40) and that was not true. Then you said the bearing was missing and that was not true. Sorry but that puts everything in doubt. Almost 5000 views on this thread of you giving misleading info. Careless, not intentional in my view, but still unfair to Montesa Honda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2015 I did read the thread. You you said the rollers were missing (post #40) and that was not true. Then you said the bearing was missing and that was not true. Sorry but that puts everything in doubt. Almost 5000 views on this thread of you giving misleading info. Careless, not intentional in my view, but still unfair to Montesa Honda. Well I cant put down what I thought having read this post, Think I've explained the "bearing missing" part above and apologised for any confusion, Have you looked at the photographs ? can you see needle rollers in the race other than the last photo when I had soaked the bearing in degreaser and cleaned it up ? and bear in mind that at post 40 the bearing was still in the bike. Unfair to Montesa Honda ? really ! My opinion (and that's what my post are) is that if the bike had no bearing fitted, that's forgetful If the bearing is incorrectly fitted, that's bad workmanship and leads me to wonder what else has been poorly fitted that may lead to failure. I paid over £5000 for my bike so I think I'm entitled to MY opinion, or do you disagree ? Teddy back in the pram 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Maybe it was put in correctly and things went wrong because you ignored maintenance that Honda recommends in the manual. You paid over £5000 for the bike and then neglected it Please read the full thread, the swinging arm bearing fault has absolutely nothing to do with lack of maintenance. Neither I suspect is the fact that the front brake lever slowly makes its way to the bar if held on, or that the bike starts to move forward if held on the clutch longer than a minute or so when warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 hannu, I think you're being "attacked" for posting things when you didn't know the full story and I really think they are a bit to harsh towards you. But regarding your latest post: If I leave the gearbox oil in to long in my 4RT, the bike gets harder to get in to neutral, so your bike creeping forward in gear might well have to do with lack of maintenance. Guys, we're all here to learn from each other and mistakes will be made, by ALL of us. And don't worry, Montesa/honda will survive this incident. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Thanks Guys, Don't think the gearbox is leaving the oil in too long as I changed it after the first event then together with the engine oil I change it every fourth event oil filter every six. I know there is another thread on here regarding types of oil but the one I used was supplied by the selling dealer and the one I use now fulfils all the manufactures specifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 (edited) I wonder from reading all this if people think we don't look after our bikes ? Get some thing clear here . Montesa Honda is definitely not a better quality product ! 24 hrs use on mine and when i came home from work ,went to workshop and tried to start the bike. Whack ,kick start ratchet gone ! They're now in my eye's no different than any other trials bike out there and certainly not worth the premium we paid over a far more competitive standard bike such as the GasGas or Beta So lets head the giving advice on starting a Montesa off now . Please don't try and insult my intelligence ! The bike defiantly has got an air of quality around it. Maybe it's just the better quality plastics and stickers eh ! Edited February 15, 2015 by shyted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted February 15, 2015 Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 Shyted, I hope you base your conclusion about Montesa on more than just that one incident, or I will insult your intelligence Some people do neglect their bikes, sometimes out off laziness, sometimes they just don't know any better. Been there done that. Don't get me wrong, I love my Montesa but that doesn't mean we have to put up with poor workmanship, from no one. And the air of quality doesn't come from just better plastics and stickers, Honda has build this up over decades and I think you know that all to well. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewtus Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Interesting turn on this thread. I can't really fathom these problems that you good folks are reporting. I have a garage full of HRC Montesas, and the build quaitiy is what you would expect from a parent company that sells several thousand Accords a day. My 4RT has literally thousands of hours on it, and has never once suffered from these maladies. The 2 315Rs in my scuderia never have either. My old warhorse 314R had a whomped top-end, but that was PO induced and had nothing to do with OE quality. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your problems with your Montesas are BS, I'm just wondering what exactly led to these maladies. I was a Registered Honda Technician here in the U.S. for a number of years in a previous life, and one thing I did learn over those years is that for every failure there is a path to the outcome. Some were quality failures sure (very few), most were caused post-sale. Not saying yours were. In my tenure, I investigated and repaired various and sundry failures on everything from Z50s to GL1800s and belive me the quality failures were very few. I'll be the first to admit that Honda has, will, and continue to step on it's own d*ck now and again, but that is a rare occurance and is usually rectified fairly quickly. Read into this post what you will. I'll be the first to admit that I'm an HRC/Honda/Montesa fanatic, so my outlook is pretty biased. I am however, an HRC/Honda/Montesa fanatic for a very good reason. Enjoy your bikes. Viva Montesa! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) guys the " insult my intelligence" comment was about kick starting, as in, this is how you start a Montesa. What you say is true people do misuse and abuse they're bikes, but i'm on about new 2014 bikes here and when you read some of the comments people have made ,it reads as iv'e stated. Let's put it this way,how will you feel if you develop problems with your new bike, will you be annoyed or disappointed ? I would definitely agree on something though , the older bikes do seem better put together and have witnessed the abuse they take . Suppose i was a bit harsh on some thing's i wrote too . Just hacked off . Edited February 16, 2015 by shyted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 I read the thread. You said the bearing was missing but then it wasn't. You said the seal keeps out water but it doesn't. You said water has contaminated the bearing and it hasn't been moving. You say this has absolutely nothing to do with lack of maintenance but if you greased the bearing like you should have then you wouldn't have had a problem. Front brake is braktec; same as Gas Gas, Sherco, Ossa, Beta and Jotagas. Having read the full thread I wouldn't be surprised if it was also a maintenance issue. Sorry S.E. LUCAS I don't speak or write Australian only the Queens English so I will attempt to speak or write as slow and simple as possible so that you may get some understanding. If that fails please try Google translator I never actually said the bearing was missing, what I did say was NO BEARING FITTED (post 51) this as I have already pointed out was to emphasise ( give special importance or value to (something) in speaking or writing) that no amount of maintenance would have made a difference should no bearing have been fitted. Yes I can see how this could have been misinterpreted ( interpret (something or someone) wrongly."I think you're misinterpreting the situation") and for this I have apologised. Yes I said the seal keeps out water, and stand by that, UNLESS the seal has been deformed (misshaped or damaged) so that it cannot make that seal. Yes I would say water had discoloured the needles that why I couldn't see them and yes the needles were not moving because the bearing case had been deformed (not having the normal or natural shape or form) due to incorrect fitting therefore locking the needles. (the needle rollers would not roll like they should in a bearing ! ) NO if I had greased the bearing earlier all I would have found in the damaged bearing and seal earlier !!!!!!. All the other dog bone bearings were clean, dry and in full working order ! NO I say nothing about lack of maintenance because any amount of maintenance would not have made a difference in this case !!! SO IF I HAD GREASED THE BEARING I WOULD STILL HAVE HAD THE PROBLEM BECAUSE IT WASNT FITTED CORRECTLY IN THE FIRST PLACE BY MONTESA. So S.E. Lucas you can read (or have friends that can) as you quite correctly point out that other trials bike manufacturers use braketec front brakes. Maintenance issue causing the problem of the lever slowly making its way to the bar ? I would be delighted if you could give me a little advice on this point and tell me what maintenance I should have been doing to prevent this as you clearly have a vast amount of superior knowledge to me on trails bikes. I only built championship winning rally cars for Ford and Talbot back in the eighties, don't really know what all these letters behind my name mean I think its something to do with motor engineering. My best guess would be contaminated brake fluid. (bits in the fluid that should be there like water) or maybe fluid seeping (passing) worn seals in the master cylinder. But I would appreciate your advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mags Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Button it up... sell it... get a Beta 300 4T. I'm 75.54% sure all Beta bearings will be fitted as the engineer designed them to be i.e correctly! Mags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiechris Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Better still, send that low quality 4RT to me (I'll give you a couple a hundred for it) and buy yourself a Gas Gas or a Sherco. That way you get to replace all four link bearings every year because they are all water affected and seized - nice and consistent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannu Posted February 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 You Ozzies are so missing the point here, You obviously take my sarcastic humour to heart. :D S.E.Lucas you know I never thought of changing the brake fluid or replacing the seals Maybe I should have done that when I brought the bike home from the dealers and before I started using it ! Thanks for the advice I'll give it a go as soon as I get home tonight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Mag's got a real question burning in the back of my pea head , why 75.54% ? Is that saying your 24.46% certain they won't be? If so i'm 94.86666% sure you'd be right ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Better still, send that low quality 4RT to me (I'll give you a couple a hundred for it) and buy yourself a Gas Gas or a Sherco. That way you get to replace all four link bearings every year because they are all water affected and seized - nice and consistent. Never a truer word spoken there about the GasGas, but my own feelings on this, as i've had both bikes within the past year or so , for the premium we've paid for our bikes here you would expect better from Montesa Honda . As a competitive bike goes , for the money , in the hands of most people , the GasGas is the better (easier) of the two to ride. Also your exaggerating as you would be replacing those bearings in as little as three month of steady use if you don't clean them after every trial as the seals appear to be made to keep the crap in instead of keeping it out. Did you also know that Sherco stands for self distruct ? that's just a joke by the way Sherco owners as i'm in no doubt that they're excellent bikes. Ahemm ! P.S To buy new last year in the UK ,on the plus side ,the Montesa was £200.00 cheaper than the Beta 250 4T. Edited February 17, 2015 by shyted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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