outlaw dave Posted January 14, 2015 Report Share Posted January 14, 2015 The dates have now been confirmed for 2015. WTC Eastern Canadian Championship - June 20/21 - Morin Heights Quebec - WTC Western Canadian Championship - June 27/.28 - Revelstoke, BC. For further info: Contact daverhodes@shaw.ca. ============================================================ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ouch, The Eastern round is over top of the NATC Ohio national. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw dave Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 The WTC (World Trials Canada) Western Championship Trial, will go this weekend at the Scotch Creek location, in British Columbia - The venue offers a wide variety of terrain, with a long loop on private land, overlooking the beautiful Shuswap lake. - The large camp-site can cater to all sizes of vehicles, including 45 ft Motor homes. - With riders expected from all over Western Canada, it promises to be a very hot weekend with temperatures forecast in the +36 degree range. - However, with the close proximity of the Lake many will no doubt take time to cool off after the event, which takes in both Saturday and Sunday. - Spanish rider Tino Marin and Australian Sam King will head up the Expert Class, but will no doubt face some fierce competition from the West Coast riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Another reminder to folks outside of Canada....the WTC is NOT a registered society, and is NOT a sanctioning body. Like every other country in the world, we have only one official sanctioning body, which has remained the same for decades, and only ONE National Championship.The WTC calls its events Nationals, which is false. None of the top riders in Canada will be in attendance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw dave Posted June 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Steve you can post what you want - but you are only harming the sport, and making yourself look silly, which is unfortunate. - To say that none of the top riders in Canada will attend our event in Scotch Creek is absolute nonsense - Brandon Wince is unable to ride as he is working in Alaska, and will not get back until after the Trial., but Tino Marin and Sam King will be there, plus Stan Bakgaard and Steve Day etc- all top Experts. - We do recognize that some riders will be going to the PNTA Trial in Washington State, because they are going for points. - Sometimes dates conflict - We wish them well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 I Have absolutely no doubt in my mind that you believe me posting truths and challenging the BS that is contstantly spewed on Canadian websites, is harming the sport. Running a fictiisous organization and calling yourself a National sanctioning body, and listing events as Nationals when they aren't, must be incredibly helpful and helping other clubs and organizers build the sport! I will risk making myself looking silly in your eyes by exposing the truth everytime. I have heard about Tino only as he has never ridden on the coast, but nothing but good things. It would be great to see him ride an actual National and see where he finishes. Spinning the truth, and conducting events anyway YOU see fit without being part of an active club must be rewarding to you. Changes in venues, rules, classes, format, all can be done at a whim with NO accountability. Uhuh, I am harming the sport, and looking silly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted June 24, 2015 Report Share Posted June 24, 2015 Why does there have to be one sanctioning body? Not every country has one sole sanctioning body. Heck I know of some states here in the US that have multiple. AHRMA, ITSA, NATC are all sanctioning bodies and some don't like each other as much as you two love each other but they survive in their own way. People are on bikes and as long as that happens we should be ok with each other. Canada is a big place boys you don't have to be nice to each other but having a street battle online isn't doing either of you any good. One thing thou that I find cool is that you are both passionate. That stands for something. Steve when is your next event in Ontario? I might just have to come and pay a visit to see for myself. (not that I matter in this world but it would be interesting to see and ride) Dave when do you think your illegitimate child of a sport according to Steve will be this far east again? I might also want to see what there is to offer as well. The Mrs. and I were talking about our next vacation this side of the pond and maybe its time we try out a Canadian series or several... Love me some Fries and Gravy! --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Biff: Some great points and sarcasm is always appreciated! :-) . I don't think I ever said HAS to be one sanctioning body.... I said there is! All of the ones you mentioned are legitimate organizations. They have members, membership and sanctioning fees, and elected officials. The WTC has none of these or any other criteria. I don't believe either that I said it should not exist in whatever form they decide. I did say however that calling their events the National Championship is a farce. It is also fact that the FIM only recognizes ONE official sanctioning body, and its National Champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 For sure FIM is the most legitimate international motorcycling sanctioning body in the world. That does not make any other sanctioning body less legitimate. It is interesting to note that while the current AMA Supercross is an "FIM World Championship" series, the AMA Pro Motocross Championship series is not FIM sanctioned. Similarly the British Motocross Championship which is governed by the Auto-Cycle Union is independent of the FIM. The list goes on. Some may think it is a terrible thing to have an organization without "paying" members but that doesn't make it any less legitimate, if you call the insurance company they will send you a legally correct certificate of insurance for your event on the WTC policy it is legally binding and not just something made up. To say the best riders will not be at one event or another is a crazy statement unless a person is willing to show up and prove they are a better rider there is no way of knowing. I should also note that as far as I know the CMA has decided to stick with their own rules and not follow the FIM standard of moving to non stop... which is perfectly acceptable but - hello pot it is kettle calling. I do agree it is great to see the passion for the sport and the sport itself growing in Canada. I say keep up the good work CMA and WTC, and NSORRA, and MTR, and ATAQ and as many other organization that want to increase the riding opportunities for local, national, and maybe some day international competitions. I should also note that FIM only recommends Skeed for underwear so if you are die hard FIM you better check your boxers. http://www.fim-live.com/en/fim/the-federation/product-certification/bodysuit-underwear/ Cheers, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Oh and Biff... With the dollar sitting at 81 cents it is a great time to visit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 We know who the best riders are in Canada and have been attempting to get them all together for the National Championship for sometime now, but its a small sport as you say Michael and as a relative newcomer your enthusiasm is welcomed for sure, but, there are many things that have, and are being mis-represented. So from where I sit, anyone telling me I make myself look silly, and hurt the sport is absurd! Perhaps you should explain to me then and anyone else reading, what constitutes a legitimate sanctioning body in Canada, and who also pays for the so called FREE insurance? I know my club enquired and the mail was NEVER answered. Perhaps you could explain also what the purpose of the WTC is, and what its goals are, and how it IS harmful to trials in Canada that we don't all work together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I know you stated that your post is just to inform non Canadians that WTC events are not "sanctioned"... my point is they are sanctioned just not by FIM. Most countries hold sanctioned motorcycle events that are and are not sanctioned by FIM so Canada is really no different. I think we can now all agree to that point (given the examples from the UK and USA) without bringing in examples from the majority of other countries. With respect to where WTC gets it funding that really hasn't changed since I answered you on the Trials Canada website in April of this year, I apologize to those outside the country for the acronyms but feel free to google them if you are really interested... "...You have the COHV that helps fund the MCC off road council (that currently has nothing to do with FIM) that has buckets of money to support motorcycling. As I understand it they have funded the WEC which is an actual entity and has an insurance policy. The WEC also has a branch they call the WTC I do not believe it is a separate legal entity but is covered by insurance as part of WEC. Since it doesn't cost anything extra the WTC is happy to extend insurance coverage to any club that is putting on trials event following the WTC rules. I would call this a WTC sanctioned event for lack of a better name for it. On the other hand you have CMA that is funded by its members across the country. They to have insurance in place and they have the FIM affiliation and associated rules. As I have said many times I think it is great to have the 2 groups trying to further our sport. It seems the CMA makes sense for clubs that are really interested in the FIM affiliation as it brings that international connection for things such as the TdN. The question I have asked the CMA is "given we currently have about 25 local riders I could dip into the provincial fund and pay the $1,875 to the CMA but what would we get in return?" Even if the club has the funds available I think it is important to invest it wisely and for the time being I would rather see the funds stay local so we can use the money to grow our club and sport locally. I admit this might be short sighted but unless I see the CMA investing in our growth (the way COHV does) I find it just too hard to sell to the local riders." As far as why I think it is harmful that we don't all work together... I'm starting to have second thoughts. It may be that by having you question the legitimacy and ability of any event or rider who is not willing to join the CMA and post on forums whenever the WTC is mentioned, just may be pushing people to get out and improve their events, grow their local clubs, practice more, compete more and hopefully be willing to open their minds to the fact any trials event is a good trials event (pretty tough to get running tape in the woods to far wrong when it comes to getting out and having a fun day). But as you say I am just new to the sport I have only been putting on events for 7 years and at 52 I am glad I have enough enthusiasm to be able to research this information and answer your questions for you. I just really enjoy the sport and with my recent sponsorship and brand new bike I am happy to do whatever I can to support the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 I must say it is great to live in Canada where 2 grown men wearing tight pants riding motorcycles without seats are blaming each other for making each other "look silly"... Just for the record my family feels strongly that any man over the age of 25 looks silly in tight pants... but that doesn't diminish my enthusiasm - LOL. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 Explain or prove where I have ever questioned a riders ability? I HAVE however tried to explain that the WTC calling any event a National Championship, is false, and also diminishes the hard work of the club who puts on the Nationals each year, and, the hard work of a committee who is dedicated to making the sport grow at all levels across the country. There is blatant mis-representation, but no one ever wants to address that. I never once said every rider and club must belong to the CMA. But, If you or your club ARE interested in helping any rider in your area who wants to one day ride Nationals in Canada, and help make those events prestigious, we have a plan and would like to see you work with us. We also have a plan to help grow the sport at the club level. There is, and has been much more take place on this side of the country than I think you are aware of, in regards to deceitful actions and statements. I am not alone at being aware of it all, but unfortunately at times I am the only one who will speak up. Sorry you take offense to it and obviously don't understand it. You seem to be very defensive about it which I guess is understandable. But, you or any other REP from WTC has not answered the questions I posted on here....other than saying that World Enduro Canada actually pays for the event insurance??? So you are saying that they get $$$ from another organization?? Whos name is actually on the cheque? What are the goals of the WTC and purpose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_t Posted June 25, 2015 Report Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) No worries, No offense taken I am simply trying to answer your questions to the best of my abilities. You have said that the best riders in Canada will not be riding at the WTC Nationals... by that I assume you are suggesting that CMA riders are in some way better than WTC riders but are not willing to show up to prove it. I don't take offense to that I simply think there is no way to prove a rider is the best unless they come and ride at national events to test their abilities. Suggesting that WTC does not have a national championship is false it is an event and anyone in the nation can attend and challenge for the title. As I have stated it is a fact that many countries have national events that are not sanctioned by FIM. I am willing to conceded that they "may" not be as prestigious as FIM events, however I certainly do not believe that they are any less work or take any less dedication and love for the sport to organize and hold... and should not be diminished anymore than the people who work so hard to put on the CMA events. In talking to the head of the CMA my understanding is if I have all our members pay their CMA dues I can switch my events to CMA sanctioned. Unfortunately our current riders are not prestigious enough to understand the value of the offer. It may simply take time and I am willing to keep trying. I am really not anti CMA I simply see value in both organizations. I am seriously considering joining the CMA as I do see value on a personal level and it is a small price to pay to continue supporting the sport in Canada (if they will have me ). BTW - WTC and its affiliation with WEC and MCC is clearly stated on the WTC website for anyone interested. http://www.wectrials.ca/index.html MCC is affiliated with COHV which supports the majority of provinces with significant funding for off road motorcycling each year. They receive 100 of thousands of dollars from bike manufactures who are all very interested in seeing motorcycling of all sorts increase in popularity in this great country of ours. I know this is getting a little off topic but hopefully we can set the record straight that a nationals does not have to be sanctioned by FIM in order to be a nationals and it is a fact that most countries have examples where this is the case. I should also state I am not currently an official of the WTC, WEC, MMC, COHV, CMA, FIM, or any Municipal, Provincial or Federal Governing body. My comment solely represent my own understanding and point of view. Edited June 25, 2015 by michael_t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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