dadof2 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Honda who have quite a bit of influence with the FIM have an ideological bias towards 4 strokes and this is often supported by environmental claims over dirty 2 stroke emissions. However several firms are now quite well advanced with GTL (Gas To Liquid) investment, mainly with a view to fuel production. GTL fuel is very clean compared to mineral based fuels. Advances in this technology could well result in a very high quality 2T lubricant that burns so cleanly in the combustion chamber that its emissions are less than petrol and at the same time the GTL oil burning will contribute to power output. Technologically such a clean burning lubricant is near certainly possible but its development could be hindered by having only a small market. For now the drift to 4T in trials seems to have been put on hold but how long will this last. It is a fairly common opinion at club level motocross that the move to 4T has been detrimental to the sport both on the grounds of increased cost and excessive noise. Might it be in the interests of the 2T trials manufacturers to get together and try to persuade at least one of the major lubricant manufacturers to produce what is effectively a zero emission lubricant? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) If more companies made smokeless oil and we used it. That would go a long way with the majority of the public. Such as Bel-Ray Si-7 Synthetic 2-Stroke Oil is a smokeless, premium synthetic lubricant. Edited January 19, 2015 by lineaway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw dave Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Optimol or Opti 2, as it now called has been available in North America for many decades, the East German Factory that produced it, provided superior lubricants to the German air effort during WW2 and the product has been sold under license in the USA and Canada since the 1980's - Used primarily in the Lawn and garden Industry, it is, however a perfect solution to the usual problems associated with two-strokes. - as a mix of 100-1 emits very little smoke, while still providing the ultimate engine protection. - It is used in all recreational two strokes, including Trials and Enduro bikes, plus snowmobiles. - for further info: contact Interlube International. USA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 It's double standards on steroids. One Jumbo jet taking off will do more damage than all the trials on at the weekend. We do more damage driving to trials than riding them. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmorpeth Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 A two stroke exhaust puts out unburnt fuel and oil.It doesn't matter what kind of smokeless oil you put in.Trying checking a two stroke exhaust for hydrocarbons and see what you get?The only reason we are putting low amounts of oil into a gallon of petrol, are the advances in oil technology and advances in engineering with closer tolerances and advances in technology ie plated cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 This GTL seems very interesting. But will it ever be used in trials? .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmorpeth Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Gas to liquid technology at the moment is where shell are using methane gas from under the ground and reacting it at 2200 celsius in pure oxygen.This produces hydrogen and carbon monoxide.They then pass this over a metal catalyst which has the same surface area as the whole of qatar.The resulting liquid can be naptha which produces plastic,fuel oil which would power a diesel engine or lubricating oil.I cant see honda fitting that lot on a trials bike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Interesting stuff. I have a view or two on the subject. First off. I saw a 3 cylinder supercharged two stroke sports car made from aircraft alloy and carbon fiber made by General Motors . So R&D is there.That was in 1994. Lots of technology development available now . I'm all for two stroke's. It also depends on who's developing the two stroke's There wasn't much un burnt fuel coming out of mick Doohan's NSR 500,but it would be a thirsty beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 GTL technology has been about since the 1930s I think but until relatively recent oil price rises was only used on a large scale when the supply of petroleum was scarce such as in Germany in WW2 and South Africa during sanctions. As Andrewmorpeth says even if the lubricating oil were completely "emissions free" there would still be the problem of unburnt petrol getting into the exhaust (unless direct injection is used) Large 2 stroke diesels on ships have historically used heavy oil as the fuel but they are now being forced to switch to GTL fuel to clean up emissions. What I wonder is if both the fuel and the lubricant in a 2t trials engine could be GTL and formulated in such a way either they burn completely to harmless byproducts or if unburnt they have such a composition they could be considered non polluting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 A two stroke exhaust puts out unburnt fuel and oil.It doesn't matter what kind of smokeless oil you put in.Trying checking a two stroke exhaust for hydrocarbons and see what you get?The only reason we are putting low amounts of oil into a gallon of petrol, are the advances in oil technology and advances in engineering with closer tolerances and advances in technology ie plated cylinders.The person you pass on the trail only cares about the smoke they see. I appreciate the conversation. But trials riders % of the pollution in the world is probably the smallest of any group of motorized people. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) It's double standards on steroids. One Jumbo jet taking off will do more damage than all the trials on at the weekend. We do more damage driving to trials than riding them. Commercial jet engines are actually very , very clean....modern cars are very clean....keep it quiet but trials bikes are very filthy things with regards regulated exhaust emissions.... Edited January 21, 2015 by iconic558 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_earle Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Emmissions.....Just wait till Hon(fim)da make Cats & EGR mandatory for 2 strokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) Commercial jet engines are actually very , very clean....modern cars are very clean....keep it quiet but trials bikes are very filthy things with regards regulated exhaust emissions....Filthy compared to what seconds, minutes. You are correct. But a Jet burns 1000 times more fuel in one hour. There is 350,000 aircraft in the world. I`ll bet just one major air lines burns more fuel in one day than all motorcycles (not trials) in the world burn in a year. On top of that the emissions are actually worse at altitude than at sea level. Get your facts straight on total pollution. Not per minute or hour. Edited January 22, 2015 by lineaway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic558 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 "Whole brain" bad day at the office? regulated exhaust emissions are measured in grams/kw/hr and/or grams/km not on time that would be silly wouldn't it then we need to consider and.....ohh pooo I can't be bothered....yup trials bike actually clean the environment and promote loving awareness....well mine does, enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted January 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Modern jet engines are quite a lot more efficient and cleaner than trials bike engines although the volume of air traffic completely negates this. I detest most of the green lobby and would give a firm 2 fingers to the likes of Price Charles, Bob Geldorf etc who preach to the rest of us whilst enjoying very polluting lifestyles themselves, just a bunch of fkkng hypocrites. There are 3 commonly used arguments against off road motorcycles, land damage, noise, and exhaust pollution. We can't do much about the first except point out it recovers naturally and quickly, but we (or at least manufacturers) can do much to reduce the latter 2 and remove them from the anti off road lobby's arsenal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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