neils on wheels Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 With a contract till 2017 if the worst should happen I'm assuming raga would get paid in full? The real world doesn't work that way. If the worst comes to the worst with any business there's only one person that gets paid, the rest have to split what's left. That's how the real world does work. If it comes to liquidation, assets will be sold and creditors paid from any surplus. Raga's contract has no greater value or priority than a parts supplier, or other business service provider, in fact since it concerns future liabilities it would most likely count for less & be more easily terminated. Ultimately, most business's fail due to cash shortages, not lack of profitability. What Gas Gas need to do is become more efficient at converting their assets into cash. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ultimately, most business's fail due to cash shortages, not lack of profitability. What Gas Gas need to do is become more efficient at converting their assets into cash. Just like whole sovereign economies, lack of cash/money is the real decider, the Eurozone is in this position now and is the reason the Euro Xerox has been plugged in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki250 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Wouldn’t it be good if we could all just print a few grand when we started running low 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 according to the dvla about 3 times more betas are registered each year than gasgas.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 GasGas is a huge success story with their range of products and a 45M turnover is nothing to be sniffed at. I looked at their accounts ( got a full report) a few years ago and they were in huge debt then but managing it .. just ! It doesn't surprise me we are here again.. They should survive this I would think because the product is a sound investment. It will be the management that are the weakest link and will need to be changed. On the back of the big euro quantitative easing program, there will be money available so that should help.. I hope they make it sensible comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 John Harvey Jones was not the success some seem to think. In the early 1980s much of British industry was seen as overstaffed and it was relatively easy to make staff cuts and boost short term share price. A great many decent hard working people lost their jobs as a result of his action, many of the job losses probably unnecessary. A genuinely good boss boosts quality and sales rather than focussing just on short term shareholder returns. ICI no longer exists http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/supportservices/2781922/ICI-finally-consigned-to-history.html Is that the sort of troubleshooter GG needs? Before anyone points out his Knighthood, they gave those to Jimmy Saville and Fred Goodwin as well. GG may have a lifeline if the Euro continues to fall, it will make its products cheaper in non Euro markets meaning they can increase margins, maybe better still if Euro goes completely belly up and Spain can return to a devalued Peseta. The fact that you defended Ched Evans probably doesnt lead anyone to respect your choices when recommending or otherwise this person or that? (An interest in Asian women is not that healthy either?) If as you say (and rarely i agree but here I do as it is an absolute fact) British industry was over staffed then regardless of share price those numbers needed to be reduced. Atom was using JHJ as AN EXAMPLE which could illustrate that companies can be turned around when sales are good and the product is number one in the marketplace, at no point did he say this man was god and could solve anything and everything. Keep up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 according to the dvla about 3 times more betas are registered each year than gasgas.. Exact figures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stroke4stroke Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 That's how the real world does work. If it comes to liquidation, assets will be sold and creditors paid from any surplus. Raga's contract has no greater value or priority than a parts supplier, or other business service provider, in fact since it concerns future liabilities it would most likely count for less & be more easily terminated. Ultimately, most business's fail due to cash shortages, not lack of profitability. What Gas Gas need to do is become more efficient at converting their assets into cash. That's basically what I was saying - the liquidator gets his fee first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Wow , we've all got our political/economist/historian/financial/management opinions going here....which is great ....but haven't GG dodged a bullet a few years ago when they re-jigged their finances and promised their debtors they'd 'streamline' the 'business-model'? (Sorry for the inverted commas but I feel nauseous using city-trader speak ). Some companies don't do well with their second bite at the cherry. If we're speculating, which we all are; how will the Greek elections tomorrow affect GasGas? Answers must be les than 1000 words...and show working out for full marks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) John Harvey Jones was not the success some seem to think. In the early 1980s much of British industry was seen as overstaffed and it was relatively easy to make staff cuts and boost short term share price. A great many decent hard working people lost their jobs as a result of his action, many of the job losses probably unnecessary. A genuinely good boss boosts quality and sales rather than focussing just on short term shareholder returns. ICI no longer exists http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/supportservices/2781922/ICI-finally-consigned-to-history.html Is that the sort of troubleshooter GG needs? Before anyone points out his Knighthood, they gave those to Jimmy Saville and Fred Goodwin as well. GG may have a lifeline if the Euro continues to fall, it will make its products cheaper in non Euro markets meaning they can increase margins, maybe better still if Euro goes completely belly up and Spain can return to a devalued Peseta. I didn't say John Harvey Jones was a genius, I didn't like his style and his ethics and was using him as an example like Dabster said , I was merely pointing out that it's people that run businesses and if the company is failing or succeeding, that's where you look.. Edited January 24, 2015 by atomant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Ian, you've mentioned something most are not supposed to know about mate, the elites will not be happy, it could scupper their plan totally if too many know how the system actually works. The debts as such are not the problem as long as you can service those debts all of the time, and if need be increase the debts in the future as long as you can still use profit to make the repayments. The problems start when you cannot afford the repayments of the debts, or your creditors want their money back, or you need to keep borrowing but cant find anyone to lend to you, one or all of these may apply to GasGas. I suspect GasGas are in a position where they simply can't make a profit from what they are doing so need to borrow constantly to increase income, most investors will have recognised this and are possibly unwilling to lend anymore so a stale mate is the outcome. I agree, and why has this come about? Money is cheap at the moment - They have good sales and why aren't they making enough money on a 45m turnover? There will be people who could sort this out. I hope they do.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I agree, and why has this come about? Money is cheap at the moment - They have good sales and why aren't they making enough money on a 45m turnover? There will be people who could sort this out. I hope they do.. Ian, as we know there is only one figure any business must take care of as turnover is irrelevant, gross profit is irrelevant, number of sales is irrelevant, the only number at the end of the year that counts is "net profit" If that number is a minus number you've got a problem, a big minus number you have a very big problem, that number needs to be either zero or better, and as already mentioned by a poster, cash flow is essential for any business, a lack of cash flow can end the most successful and most profitable businesses on the planet if its wrong. Money is cheap for many reasons, none of those reasons ensure anyone will be able to get their hands on any of it though, even if that money was more expensive. Mr Draghi is trying to force the banks to lend, a policy that is destined to fail quite spectacularly in the coming months, if you're already scared stiff to lend to businesses encase they default, taking free money that you still have to account for and lending that is not going to suddenly make you feel less scared of lending it, neither is closing long standing money havens Banks use to keep the fictitious electronic numbers supposedly safe. Although I have no insider info and everything I say is guess work I expect Gasgas are protecting the business from their debts in the courts so the business cannot be closed down by anyone, although this helps in some way if those who want to see you closed down are suppliers to the manufacture of your end product you face an enormous problem as you cannot operate/make bikes anymore. A guess again, but GasGas now need a very rich investor willing to pay off the existing debts or restructure them and make the business profitable immediately, sadly something that simply cannot be done in some cases. Edited January 24, 2015 by the addict 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 If GasGas are selling their product for £6,000 per unit but it costs them £7,000 to build and market it then no amount of sales are ever going to cure that problem, the cure is producing and marketing the bikes at a figure under £6,000 or managing to persuade the motorcycle industry GasGas bikes are now worth over £7,000 a unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breagh Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 How about this for a cost cutter. Sell direct from the factory,no importer (sorry JS) or dealer. Just make to order and sell on line direct to the door. I would be quite happy to do this specially as i've never had an issue with any new bike and that's a lot. No ideal,but this is the way things are going. How much would you save too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think it more likely you'll be buying China or India manufactured trials bikes soon. A major problem with trials is that it is a sport for enthusiasts run by enthusiasts. We're very near sighted about the wider world in general. We want the best for the least cost and for low volume business like trials that is a recipe for financial disaster unless costs can be cut to an impossible level for European manufacturing. GasGas has done a lot of brilliant R&D while still trying to sell a low volume product at as low a margin as possible. It's an unsustainable business model which will force price rises or cost reductions by off-shoring. Once that starts Beta and Sherco will have to follow or die. This is much more than one company teetering. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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