steve_earle Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Isn't one of the points of a forum to debate topics, be a bit boring else, nice to read other peoples views. It's good to have a debate but there is a pattern emerging here lately where almost every topic ends up being a war. My opinion is, Sometimes it's best to give up if you fail to get your point across, rather than carry on till your blue in the face, swearing my cats blacker than yours etc. Is this a Trials forum or dads fighting in the pits at a motocross meeting? Right, Rant over, My turn to shut up now.. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) #129 Yes I am familiar with accounting and can make educated guesses about what the problems are at GG, But without factual detail they would still just be guesses. I have seen perfectly viable businesses liquidated (more recent administration practices would have prevented this). I have also seen businesses that were not solvent and never would be continue to trade long after the creditors should have pulled the plug or their owners faced reality. I also know of several who have had advice from experts, business advisers or banks that has been severely flawed. Yes GG have their debts to service, but what are all the factors that have contributed to this debt? Suppliers - most firms use supplier goodwill to help cash flow / keep their borrowing down. Have GG suddenly wanted even longer credit or have some suppliers (possibly with inside knowledge) decided to try to lower the amount of credit they allow GG. Might some suppliers themselves be having cash flow difficulty, forcing them to put pressure on GG? Initial set up costs? Investment to increase / improve productivity that turned out not to be cost effective? Buying out Piebernat? Patent and design payments / fees? A sudden hike in interest rates at some time in the past? Spending on R & D, new products, supported riders / works teams costs allowed to get out of hand? Have sales fallen or not met projections used for financial decisions? Putting it simply expenditure has been allowed to exceed income. "Every topic ends up being a war" not quite but I know what you mean. Soon be summer and light nights and we will be able to use our energies on the bikes rather than the keyboard. "Fockk JHJ you're the man for GG" I bet there are quite a few who could look over the books and factory and tell them where they have gone wrong, problem for GG is those who might be able to put it right are a lot scarcer. I know of several farmers, and 2 local producers in particular that chose to invest heavily in milk production just prior to the recent price falls. Their business models which must have seemed reasonable at the time to a number of experts have now gone completely out of the window. Edited February 1, 2015 by dadof2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Soon be summer and light nights and we will be able to use our energies on the bikes rather than the keyboard. Amen to that! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) It's good to have a debate but there is a pattern emerging here lately where almost every topic ends up being a war. My opinion is, Sometimes it's best to give up if you fail to get your point across, rather than carry on till your blue in the face, swearing my cats blacker than yours etc. Is this a Trials forum or dads fighting in the pits at a motocross meeting? Right, Rant over, My turn to shut up now.. To the point ! Agreed steve-earl , and what everyone in the office at my work said things along those line's when they read this whole post. We laughed . For the push you push me comment i unashamedly made ,watch MadMax 1 where Bubba Zannetti and Cundalinie (from memory) arrive in the bush town on thier bike's, and it sum's thing's up perfectly. Why are we policing each others comments? Edited February 1, 2015 by shyted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) I know of several farmers, and 2 local producers in particular that chose to invest heavily in milk production just prior to the recent price falls. Their business models which must have seemed reasonable at the time to a number of experts have now gone completely out of the window. and here is a perfect example of a little knowledge being dangerous Sainsbury's and Marks and Spencer who are currently paying 34p per litre, Waitrose who are paying 33p per litre, Tesco who are paying 32p per litre and Co-op who are paying almost 31p per litre. Arla, which supplies Asda, pays farmers 25p per litre, as does Muller Wiseman. Dairy Crest is set to cut its price to less than 25p per litre, and First Milk - which recently delayed payments to farmers - pays about 22p per litre. Iceland supermarket gets its milk from Arla and Muller Wiseman on the open market but in the good times they can get 50% more than the top fixed rate.. mix into that the variables of rents rates labour costs etc etc and its far from 'low' pricing affecting dairy farmers.. detail and changes made as aresult of jonnyb's excellent questions Edited February 1, 2015 by totalshell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 and here is a perfect example of a little knowledge being dangerous Tesco are a top payer @23p a litre ( only one company pays more) a guranteed price for its producers.. asda/arla/wiseman pay anywhere from 18-21 but those that choose to ride the wave of variable pricing are getting as little as 11p on the open market but in the good times they can get 50% more than the top fixed rate.. mix into that the variables of rents rates labour costs etc etc and its far from 'low' pricing affecting dairy farmers.. I thought M&S & Tesco paid the most for milk at present More than 23ppl too don't they ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) I thought M&S & Tesco paid the most for milk at present More than 23ppl too don't they ? I think it depends on what the end use of the milk is, prices vary wildly depending on that. I have a friend who is struggling fairish with these prices at the moment, as is the entire oil industry. Edited February 1, 2015 by the addict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 is this a contest to see who can get the furthest away from the original topic ? or did I miss something and GG spent 24m euro on a dairy farm. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_earle Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 What we need is fair trade milk, Co Op etc is quick to support coffee growers and coco banana blokes on the other side of the world. Sorry, Off topic still. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Just milking the thread. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 Just milking the thread. Pull the other teat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted February 1, 2015 Report Share Posted February 1, 2015 is this a contest to see who can get the furthest away from the original topic ? or did I miss something and GG spent 24m euro on a dairy farm. Farmers & dairy farmers support GG Some buy their bikes & allow Trials on their land Pretty good link between the two 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyted Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) So when i get home i'm buying 10 pint's ( about 5 ltr ) of creamy top and a brand new TXT 250 racing. Support farmers, support Spanish economy and UK trials scene . Edited February 2, 2015 by shyted 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I never thought of the links identified by Jonnyboxer when I posted this but in fact some of the best trials land in Northern Centre is courtesy of farmers who have significant investment in dairy production. My reason for posting dairy issue was just as an example of how unpredictable business can be and still go wrong even with the best advice available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 Should always support farmers! They get precious little help from anyone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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