johnnyboxer Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Maybe they know something you don't ? Rose-tinted specs maybe, because an old Twinshock is old hat and won't attract young'uns They want a good bike to hop and jump on, not a heavy,poorly suspended and underbraked old shonker As older riders drops out, because they get too old, where's the young'uns gonna come from? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Rose-tinted specs maybe, because an old Twinshock is old hat and won't attract young'uns Bollocks my friend ! Your confusing your prejudices with reality. Edited March 9, 2015 by b40rt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Bollocks my friend ! Your confusing your prejudices with reality. No prejudices, my friend No need for the verbal assault, please I have had Twinshocks, plenty of them, - but they can't hold a light to any modern bike, face facts Maybe it's your prejudices, my friend and not mine - have many modern bikes have you ridden? Give a young 18 year old a choice, between a 250 Beta Evo and a Beamish/Bultaco 250 - side by side and I bet he'd pick the Evo Edited March 9, 2015 by johnnyboxer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 You must be a very delicate soul if "bollocks" constitutes a "verbal assault" Plenty of young riders in the north east and Highland 2 day. And as an aside, can't be much of a weight difference between good twin shock and a 4RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 You must be a very delicate soul if "bollocks" constitutes a "verbal assault" Plenty of young riders in the north east and Highland 2 day. And as an aside, can't be much of a weight difference between good twin shock and a 4RT. Maybe not, but the 4RT is light years better, in terms of chassis/suspension and motor/brakes than the Godden Majesty or trick TLR I also had a few years ago I'd never go back to the Fantics/Seeley Hondas or Majesty Yams I rode in the 1980's, over a Beta Evo or 4RT from the 21st Century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'd never go back to the Fantics/Seeley Hondas or Majesty Yams I rode in the 1980's, over a Beta Evo or 4RT from the 21st Century Each to their own, but surely it's about getting out and enjoying a day's trailing ? Twin shocks etc compete in their own classes, as I'm sure you know,so whether their brakes / suspension / mapping is better or worse isn't a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) If you have a look at the CCMCC results I gave the link to you will see in second place was a twinshock, probably near 90kg. I do not want to make bikes heavier just for the sake of it, As I am the wrong side of 50 years old and carrying a few old injuries having a light easy to handle bike is preferable. What I feel would be to the overall benefit of the sport would be a restriction on development that adds costs and in some instances makes the bikes less reliable. At the moment to make their bikes competitive manufacturers have to make them as light as possible. A weight and exotic material restriction would end the necessity for manufacturers to develop in this direction, hopefully cutting their development costs and increasing reliability. I chose 77kg because that is about the weight of a ready to go 4RT. At some trials last year including a national I spoke to several riders who were able to flick their 4Rts about, some had been lightened, some were standard. Even F1 the costly pinnacle of motor sport has weight and development restrictions, but for some reason when it comes to trials, a predominantly amateur sport there are virtually no restrictions. Would Gas gas now be in a better position if it had not had to go to the expense of the lightweight pro engine development? Steve Earl states a 90Kg GG won;t get new riders into the sort, I can't disagree with that, but a more reliable lower cost bike would probably stop some quitting. When I bought my first trials bike it was not to compete in trials, it was to have something road legal that I could also mess about on on rough ground. I could also commute and go to the pub on it. Farmers used them for shepherding. That is how most people I know got into trials. That route for entry to the sport is now pretty well none existent and trials bike specialisation is a significant factor in this. Edited March 9, 2015 by dadof2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfc Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Topic done to death! Like it or not light and further engineered strength is the only future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Topic done to death! Like it or not light and further engineered strength is the only future. Reality check, twinshock and pre 65 is the growth market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfc Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Sorry b40rt I was referring to new bikes, I too love pre 65 and twin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Agree to some extent, once the genie is out of the bottle it is very hard to get it back in. BUT something has to be done. Look at the WiTC 38 / 64 fails. Look also at http://www.trialscentral.com/component/attachments/download/1898 I can remember when we rode 90+kg tanks at this trial and in those days it had well over 100 entries and virtually no retirements. Something is wrong. I certainly do not attribute all the problems to light weight development but it certainly is a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Sorry b40rt I was referring to new bikes, I too love pre 65 and twin! I know ! Just trying to get a reaction, but can't help thinking the expanding twinshock pre 65 market must be affecting sales of "modern" bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfc Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) As said above the riders of tomorrow get there kicks from electronic instant gratification. They don't have to build go karts, modify push bikes with bits from the tip to make there own fun. I am so glad that both my boys have spent the last 10 + years riding and interacting with the trials world. It's sad to think that we can't sell our sport to tomorrow's riders! Edited March 9, 2015 by jfc 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_earle Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'm not against a minimum weight limit but it has to be capped at what modern bikes are at the moment or new bike sales will be hit hard. It will cause a riot if older bikes had to have weights fitted and the thought of having to weigh bikes at a club trial doesn't bear thinking of. As dadof stated, they did spend alot on the new pro engine but the old txt lump weighs about 28kg so they had to do something and I guess they went all out to make sure the design would be competitive 10 years later, It could have been stronger though and a touch heavier and still be the lightest for the next 10 years. I'm not against twinshocks, I love them but would have to spend alot buying one and double that to make it as competitive as most of the others. That's why I'm building an Aircooled mono at the moment. Classics are not the best bikes to learn to ride on compared to modern, Many people go classic but they are mainly seasoned riders not newbies. Whatever you do with the bikes it doesn't matter, It's the exposure and promotion of the sport that will get new riders to make trials survive. Look at Motocross and Enduro, Dearer bikes, Dearer to compete and it's bigger than trials 10 fold because in the kids (and chavs) eyes it's the exiting, cool thing to do and they know about it as it's more exiting to watch on youtube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 For those of you who are beginning to doubt your mouse yes this is the Gas Gas forum. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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