japes1275 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) I see what you mean in some ways but then by modern standards the engines from the 50's and 60's are crap so why cant I turn up on a bike with TL 250 engine in my C15?! One of the reasons pre65 trials started was because the modern bikes were getting so good at what they did that the sections were getting harder and harder. By using the bikes they grew up with, folks could still sport that paunch, they wouldn't find themselves balancing on a rock 10 feet in the air and most importantly they could get to the pub before Sunday closing! But now a lot of people seem to want to make their old bikes more and more like the best of the twinshocks from the 80's and because of that the sections are getting harder for the real bikes. I'm thinking of returning to pre 65 trials but am a bit disenchanted by the way things seem to have gone in the last decade or so. It's crying out for a national governing body to come up with some simple regulations with a few classes and for the bikes to be scruitineered before each event. Probably a bit late for that now though!! Edited February 13, 2015 by japes1275 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzuki250 Posted February 13, 2015 Report Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) To be fair most people use later parts more for cost than the advantage gain. Don’t be put off by all the moaning, it’s a very welcoming sport and most trials are easier now than they were back in the day. Edited February 13, 2015 by suzuki250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 japes1275 feel free to offer your services to scrutineer at events i am sure the organisers will welcome you with open arms because nobody else has ever offered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Hi, japes 1275 has said: "One of the reasons pre65 trials started was because the modern bikes were getting so good at what they did that the sections were getting harder and harder. By using the bikes they grew up with, folks could still sport that paunch, they wouldn't find themselves balancing on a rock 10 feet in the air and most importantly they could get to the pub before Sunday closing! But now a lot of people seem to want to make their old bikes more and more like the best of the twinshocks from the 80's and because of that the sections are getting harder for the real bikes." Sadly, japes 1275, as one of the three people who actually organised the very first such trial for our old British bikes, and as the person who coined the phrase "pre-65" in my column in T+MX, and then organised the series of trials around the country for no less than ten years, which was later adopted as the Sammy Miller series, I can tell you that your reasoning and argument are entirely incorrect. Agreed the influx of, initially, Spanish machines, which had been created specifically as trials machines had the expected result of making organisers tighten up their sections. That meant that riders who only had their current crop of often second hand machines found they couldn't even push their machines around the sections, the bends were just so tight - but we didn't hang on to our British bikes because we had healthy paunches - or because we really wanted to get to the pub - not ride the bikes. No, we held on to our old British bikes because, on the whole, we were young working men often with young families. There was no way you could afford a new bike whatever the type or nationality, and for the first few years there were NO second-hand specialist Spanish machines - worse still, because all the affluent and supported riders were swopping to the new trials models the bottom completely dropped out of the second hand value of our British bikes. So we had a very simple choice. Choose some other form of recreation that we could afford - or create a series of trials specifically set to suit our existing machinery. We were motorcyclists, we rode trials in the winter, often scrambled them in the summer, and used them as everyday ride to work machines throughout the whole year. We made our very simple choice, we carried on riding our bikes - but in 'pre-65' events suitable for them!!!! When we improved our wages we could then buy another bike, with a sidecar, then take our young families with us, or, when there was a trial, take off the sidecar body and strap the trials bike to the chassis to transport it to the events. Nowadays is a completely different scene - who would use a modern trials model as ride to work transport? How many of the modern trials riders ever ride a bike on the road? It's a different world, so making comparisons with 'the way that it was' is just not possible. Just enjoy whatever it is that you do - but please don't make excuses that are based on a false understanding of what it was all about. Cheers Deryk Wylde Edited February 16, 2015 by laird387 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Hi Guy's. Hi Deryk, Here Here. Changed full stop. All "Pre65" is about now is "Bling" and who can get away with what? Big and Small. You can count the number of trials that actualy cater for proper British Bikes, built before 1965 on one hand??? If you want to have fun riding without the one-upmanship, just buy, or make cheaper alternative. Regards Charlie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davetom Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 "It's a different world, so making comparisons with 'the way that it was' is just not possible." So why keep on doing that then ? A sport involving a finite number of machines getting older and older each year is bound to naturally evolve over time, just because that evolution is not to your liking doesn't make it wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laird387 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 "It's a different world, so making comparisons with 'the way that it was' is just not possible." So why keep on doing that then ? A sport involving a finite number of machines getting older and older each year is bound to naturally evolve over time, just because that evolution is not to your liking doesn't make it wrong. Hi dave, I didn't say - or even hint that i thought it was wrong - I said whatever it is that you are doing, enjoy it. I only made the comparison because japes had a completely wrong impression of why the sport started - and it is a wrong impression that I hear repeated time and again. There is a totally inaccurate view that those of us who started the sport were purists, which anyone who was there and saw what was going on would know is complete jibberish - we were just hard working lads without a great deal of spare cash......and young families to bring up. Now enjoy it - I do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japes1275 Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Oops, I seem to have started something here - apologies to the original poster about his C15 forks!! Deryk, I was only under that completely wrong impression because that's what I'd been told by someone that was there at the same time as yourself so it's obviously a matter of opinion!! (probably why you keep hearing it) I won't be put off by anything to be honest, at the end of the day it's whatever you enjoy that matters and as has already been pointed there is always the option of joining the 'specials' bikes. Who knows, after my first trial I might be hunting out some fancy forks myself!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted February 16, 2015 Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 Hi Guy's, Unfortunately, I also was there just after Deryk, And I also was only confirming what we did at the time, I did not have a growing family at the time, but also no cash, we all did our trials riding on a very tight shoestring, made do and mend, and enjoyed every bloody minute we could riding our basically road bike based trials machines. Yes we know the world has changed, that is why some manufacturers are still building trials bikes to a formula that they think is right, but surely if you are in the game you try and build something that people really want, then make a fortune? You can keep spending your hard earned to update a so called basic trials machine from the sixties, but we know that is not the case, the outline of the machine in some circumstance, may look like a machine from that era. but we all know that that is false. So why spend all that cash to build something that is not what it is pretending to be?? I love all aspects of the game ?Well Classic scene, And just can't get it into my head why people can't look for a cheaper way to get into the Classic sport ,for fun, without the headache of spending all of this cash. I will keep doing what I am, just to please myself, and I know others are doing the same, but then we get ridiculed for what we are trying to do for the sport, Why? We will stand up to be proved wrong, OK. Regards Charlie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawil Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 i am with deryk and charlie get an old trail bike sling a triumph 500 unit motor in then bolt a sidecar on you now have a cheap fun trials outfit capable of winning the sammy miller championship , all you have to do is ride it better than the rest ,you could put one together at todays prices go out and have fun and get change out of £1500. me i ride a 1958 197cc greeves scottish with a homemade chair .total cost on the road and its competetive £965, all we need now is to go back to one route for all classes ,you then get wide sensible sections that we can all enjoy without having to spend a fortune on trick fancy frames and bits or am i just getting to old ,.will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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