Another Blow To Super Cub Trials Projects.

[steve_earle]

i cant see the difference between the bikes john builds and a 2015 bantam of trick majesty or a fantic with monoshock engine

its the rider that will win the trial not the bike

Then why are they building these light little bikes then?

O.k Trials is down to the rider to a big extent, But stick Toni Bou on a big heavy twinshock and see how he does against the others on lighter bikes.

A group of older gents, Very good riders all about the same level but are getting on a bit, arthritis, back trouble etc, The lighter bike will always be the advantage.

[dursleydabber]

Like Deryk I took up Pre65 trials because I could not afford to buy a modern bike.Pre65 eligibility rules have all gone out off the window as far as I'm concerned.I really do get sick off people arguing over it because deep down I think we all know what's right or wrong!My bikes have always been right and im one off the youngest guys thats grown up within the movement!I won a national championship on an big banger last year (against a hoard off brand new replicas) with original frame,forks,mag wheels etc and no one gets to know about it!A guy wins the Pre65 scottish on a BRAND NEW bike thats ressembles nothing that was rode before 1965 and overnight he becomes a national hero!Its a real kick in the teeth,so who do we blame?!Some riders have always sought to bend the rules to gain an edge,its very hard to stop them without upsetting them cos they always say they have done nowt wrong!Jon has always bent the rules ever since he used to ride a CCM based bike in Pre65 in the early 80's.He was after all one off the Cheltenham Cheats!All the cheats also happened to be bloody good riders to!

[dursleydabber]

Rant cont, Deryk is the only person in my humble option,in the original Sammy series,to get the eligibility rules right in this country.He came under alot off flack during his time,(remember the fiddle you was presented at gv dinner Deryk)but he always stuck to his rules no matter who you was.I remember one day a certain ex works star was getting the treatment for having BSA four bolt forks in(a particular bugbear off Deryks)He was not a happy bunny!Organisers note,just use Deryks old rules! Simple!Now I think its got so far out off hand,only some sort off minimum weight per class rule would work!Say 260lbs for Pre Unit Springer,280lbs for pre unit Rigid etc This would negate the use of trick bits!Also possibly minimum wheelbase and ground clearance measurements with rider normally seated,?Would we all agree on the criteria? I don't think so!Deryk was the Ariel you rode in the original Shake the one I have now?Your right we had our disagreements but never really fell out!Great days!

[ducman]

Well this is always the neverending story.Trouble is we have so much stupid rules in our sport that most of us do not understand the sence of them.

In my country we have to prepare the bikes for the german classictrial championship like this:Killbutton with wrist band,Handdlebarpad,closed back and front spocket and a finn at the swingingarm near the backsprocket.Then in the same regs it says the bike has to look like it was back in the day.

Sorry that makes no scence to me.We have a few nice trials over here which are not championship standart so we ride them or go to holland or belgium,as it is just down the road for us where we live.Going to Belgium.Pay,ride,enjoy.

[4stroke]

Minimum weight would cover pre65 and twinshocks. Easy to check as well.

[laird387]

Hi,

There were certain competitions - which never made an appearance in trials - where you had to agree that you would sell any bike that you entered for a flat rate of $x000 to any bidder after the event.

Make that a stipulation of twinshock trials with the level at £1800 and then watch the entries disappear...............

[suzuki250]

Minimum weight would cover pre65 and twinshocks. Easy to check as well.

It’s hard enough to find observers, let alone someone to weigh all the bikes

Anyway who said there is anything wrong with classic trials, it’s only the same small minority that keep moaning about it!

To be fair if you turn up with a bike with a Chinese engine wheels & brakes plus a frame of your our design, do your really expect to ride and be included in the results?

Edited March 26, 2015 by suzuki250

[old trials fanatic]

Hi,

There were certain competitions - which never made an appearance in trials - where you had to agree that you would sell any bike that you entered for a flat rate of $x000 to any bidder after the event.

Make that a stipulation of twinshock trials with the level at £1800 and then watch the entries disappear...............

And why would a trial with no entries be a good thing ?

[old trials fanatic]

It’s hard enough to find observers, let alone someone to weigh all the bikes

Anyway who said there is anything wrong with classic trials, it’s only the same small minority that keep moaning about it!

To be fair if you turn up with a bike with a Chinese engine wheels & brakes plus a frame of your our design, do your really expect to ride and be included in the results?

We allow riders on modern bikes to ride on a non award basis at our trials just for fun. Why is Jons converted Raleigh Chopper any different ?

[jon v8]

So much has already been said which I both agree and disagree with I think, I thought I'd just as well join in ! The main problem I see is in the classes - esp in the Miller rounds,class 2 for instance is a complete nonsense,why are riders in the clubman class on Pre unit springers lumped in with Cubs,bantams and James's ? Not much to entice owners of pre unit stuff to join in when they are against bikes half their size and weight. And because the class is dominated by lightweights the section setters are forced to make the sections harder to test them out. Which can also makes it very tight for us in class 1 rigid.

I have nothing against the Cub thing that Jon rides,I have no interest in it at all,but its light and trick enough to have more in common with modern mono's than anything "Classic" by anybody's standards. Again,put in a class to test them in the Miller rounds and the sections end up getting harder - again going further away from being rideable for pre unit / concrete mixer bikes.Saying its a cheaper way into twinshock trials is stretching it a bit too, Ty's and the like can still be picked up for less than a grand.They might need work,so teach yourself basic bike mechanics and fix it up yourself - which is what I've been doing since the age of 8 with a Honda steppy,a D3 Bantam at 9 and a C15 when I was ten. None cost more than £30 back then,there was nobody to help me so I had to do it myself. If you want something bad enough you just have to get on and do it.

Trials is still cheaper than any other bike sport and can be done on a real shoestring,the bikes hold their money and don't have to cost a fortune.

So I think the answer is for the ACU to stop just taking money,get off their backsides and sort the classes out.When that is done and the picture is clear the section setters will have a better idea of section severity needed and all the old bikes will come out again ?

Or are people happy to let the current mess that allows all these arguments to fester on and on ? At least if there was some kind of statement / action / dialogue then we could thrash something out. I think the ACU hold the answer.

BTW, I think Dursley Dabber has found the sloe gin again...

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's,

Here is a question for you then, do you think whether or not having rules related to Classic trial-ling in the UK and the resultant acceptance of using ground up new bikes in the P65 class, has been a good thing for the sport as a whole ?

Or would we be happier riding anything we choose, and deem in our own view is a Classic machine , like they seem to on the continent of Europe and beyond. They seem so much happier than we do?

Regards Charlie.

[laird387]

Hi Jon,

I am sorry that you joined the active participants after I had ceased to coordinate the original series - but don't just listen to our young friend from Dursley - talk to anyone else who also rode in the trials.

Your answer is precise and to the point - mixing the lightweights and old lumps together in one class 2 is rampant nonsense and in direct contravention of the original aim of the series - to create fair competition for anyone riding anything - but only competition with riders on similar machines.

In answer to otf's query as to why would reduced entries be acceptable - well when I made it clear that anybody with a 'fiddle' bike would be riding on a no award basis, my entry numbers went up by leaps and bounds - during the first ten years we averaged just over 450 riders taking part in more than five rounds. People CAME because they knew they would get a fair ride.

And the organisers who set harder sections to take marks off the lighter bikes - deluded. Set the sections rideable by everybody, including the old rigids, and anybody who rides clean all day - so what, they haven't proved anything by spending a fortune.................

[metisse]

I wasn t going to put my two euro's worth in ,but would like to correct the last but one post on Europe.

Pre 65 bikes are very few and far between in all but a few trials, both here and in France and Spain. The one's I have seen riding are pretty well within the spirit of the class with only one or two being more Fantic than triumph, but in these cases the riders if I recall correctly, ride them in twinshock classes.

Twinshock again are usually only lightly modded although word is spreading via the internet and modifications more akin to you would find in the Uk are being fabricated / copied this side of the channel.

Only in the Uk would someone have the brass neck to call it a pre 65 and I hope someone else has the broad shoulders to say its not welcome unless on a no award basis.. two euros worth..

[suzuki250]

Hi Guy's,

Here is a question for you then, do you think whether or not having rules related to Classic trial-ling in the UK and the resultant acceptance of using ground up new bikes in the P65 class, has been a good thing for the sport as a whole ?

Or would we be happier riding anything we choose, and deem in our own view is a Classic machine , like they seem to on the continent of Europe and beyond. They seem so much happier than we do?

Regards Charlie.

I’m quite happy with classic trials & twinshock as they are, 99% of the people I speak to are of the same opinion

And I’m very grateful people spend the time to organise them

Just seems to be the same few who moan all the time?

Edited March 26, 2015 by suzuki250

[japes1275]

Jon's comment about the ACU sounds right to me. Why do people pay them because as far as I can see they do nothing as a governing body to organise decent rules and regs. As someone coming to trials from a Motorsport background I can't believe how disorganised it all is. I pay the MSA (a lot of money admittedly!) every year and for that I get properly organised events by clubs that have to abide by their rules. The regulations pertaining to my particular motorsport discipline are properly written down and are pretty unambiguous.

On the other hand the classic trials rules seem open to misinterpretation and are poorly policed. Things like 'only pre65 manufactured or replica yokes can be used'. What does that mean? I know that obviously the yokes off my 1962 BSA are fine but where does replica come in? To me I would hope it meant some nicely forged steel reproduction ones that look the same and are made from the same material but aren't original. But I'm guessing a lot of people think it means some horrible aluminium 'billet' ones knocked up on a CNC milling machine. Does it mean that? I don't know because it's not clear.

Having said that I don't believe stricter rules and a more involved governing body are what most people want for classic trials and the more relaxed events are more important to people than bureaucracy. Unfortunately that will always benefit the people willing to bend the rules and lead to these little chats I'm starting to get used to on here!