Not So Rookie Right Out Of The Gate! Putt!

[hensley]

Pat practiced a lot, but got his ass handed to him in the Pro class here when he started! Not a happy lad! Yet he had the perseverance to hang in there and gain the experience! 

 

 

Im confused i thought Pat won 2 of the 8 events in his rookie year how is that having his ass handed to him?

[copemech]

Pat practiced a lot, but got his ass handed to him in the Pro class here when he started! Not a happy lad! Yet he had the perseverance to hang in there and gain the experience! 

 

 

Im confused i thought Pat won 2 of the 8 events in his rookie year how is that having his ass handed to him?

 

 

Well John,  2006 I think it was first full year he rode PRO

Don't think he rode but one Pro event in  05, and he had only topped Ray Peters once that year in Expert before he made the jump to Pro. It did not happen overnight.

 

Aaron Geoff PR CO GAS 184 30 30 30 25 21 30 18 16 16

2 Webb Cody PR CA SHE 156 21 16 18 15 30 25 21 25 15

3 le Riche Bruce PR TN SHE 154 18 21 21 30 25 21 16 18 16

4 Florin Chris PR FL GAS 139 16 25 15 21 16 15 25 21 15

5 Smage Patrick PR WI SHE 130 14 14 14 14 14 14 30 30 14

6 Wineland Keith PR CO GAS 123 25 18 16 18 15 16 14 15 14

7 le Riche Brent PR TN MON 122 15 15 25 16 18 18 15 14 14

8 Smage Phillip PR WI SHE 38 0 13 13 12

9 Ibsen Will PR GA SHE 13 13

[biffsgasgas]

Well John, 2006 I think it was first full year he rode PRO

Don't think he rode but one Pro event in 05, and he had only topped Ray Peters once that year in Expert before he made the jump to Pro. It did not happen overnight.

Aaron Geoff PR CO GAS 184 30 30 30 25 21 30 18 16 16

2 Webb Cody PR CA SHE 156 21 16 18 15 30 25 21 25 15

3 le Riche Bruce PR TN SHE 154 18 21 21 30 25 21 16 18 16

4 Florin Chris PR FL GAS 139 16 25 15 21 16 15 25 21 15

5 Smage Patrick PR WI SHE 130 14 14 14 14 14 14 30 30 14

6 Wineland Keith PR CO GAS 123 25 18 16 18 15 16 14 15 14

7 le Riche Brent PR TN MON 122 15 15 25 16 18 18 15 14 14

8 Smage Phillip PR WI SHE 38 0 13 13 12

9 Ibsen Will PR GA SHE 13 13

As I recall the pro event in 05 was in NY with a huge set of rocks in the parking lot.

--biff

[hensley]

Well John,  2006 I think it was first full year he rode PRO

Don't think he rode but one Pro event in  05, and he had only topped Ray Peters once that year in Expert before he made the jump to Pro. It did not happen overnight.

 

Aaron Geoff PR CO GAS 184 30 30 30 25 21 30 18 16 16

2 Webb Cody PR CA SHE 156 21 16 18 15 30 25 21 25 15

3 le Riche Bruce PR TN SHE 154 18 21 21 30 25 21 16 18 16

4 Florin Chris PR FL GAS 139 16 25 15 21 16 15 25 21 15

5 Smage Patrick PR WI SHE 130 14 14 14 14 14 14 30 30 14

6 Wineland Keith PR CO GAS 123 25 18 16 18 15 16 14 15 14

7 le Riche Brent PR TN MON 122 15 15 25 16 18 18 15 14 14

8 Smage Phillip PR WI SHE 38 0 13 13 12

9 Ibsen Will PR GA SHE 13 13

exactly he won the last two events of the year gaining command of the pro class for good not many lumps i dont know how you could rise to the top any faster than that. 

 

Another podium for Putt yesterday great to see someone entering the pro class not at the bottom. but still a long ways from pat. Defiantly the most interesting pro class in years

[betatechnopilot]

I took my wife to this past Texas National Round and other than having to do some walking in the heat she had a great time! She was very impressed not only with the pros and their riding ability but also how approachable everyone was. She had people just walk up and start talking to her and answering her questions and she said, "There is no other professional sport that allows you to be this close to the action." She had a great time and now she actually gets what this is all about. 

[joe_300]

Not sure who you are, but that almost p****s me off that you could say that! EXPECTED? Really?

Fortunate perhaps, to be able to go there and practice and learn at his young age, and he obviously eats it up, but he still lacks experience. Oh yes, he has the drive and determination and will do well, yet not overnight!

Pat practiced a lot, but got his ass handed to him in the Pro class here when he started! Not a happy lad! Yet he had the perseverance to hang in there and gain the experience! In the sections!

Way to go Andrew! Hang in there buddy!

 

I don't think you quite understand what i said. Yeah Pat had a rough time moving to pro his first year i understand that but did Pat spend months upon months in Europe to jump up to the front of pro? no he didn't. also back when Pat first started to ride pro there were many many more riders in the class which is why his fist year was tough on him. After that first year of Pat in pro that is when he stepped up his riding and became national champion. Yes Pat had his time in Europe but it was a lot of donations that got him over there to compete at the world championship, not to practice with the best in the world for months. Pat had many other things he did as well as improved his riding. Pat did ride many many hours to learn where he is now and same with all the pros for that matter.  

 

Now back to present, there are only 6 riders in the pro class. Lets take Alex for example since this is his first year riding pro as same for Andrew. Alex was just as skilled as Andrew was last year but Andrew was riding a 125 last year at the nationals so definitely give Andrew the edge. Now if Alex would of had the same opportunity as Andrew to spend all of that time riding with team SPEA and other Europeans, I would almost guarantee he would be just as good as where Andrew is today. I bet Bryan and Logan would be right up there to riding even better than they are now in the pro class if they had the chance to give up school and work to go ride trials full time.

 

Basically what i am saying is money talks. Thats the reason trials will never be like motocross is because trials is a rich persons hobby. The europeans all know this to. Look at Alexander Ferrer. Why do you think he still rides? Its because his parents have the funds to have him ride not because sherco is paying him or anyone is paying him a decent salary. Only the top few in world pro get paid and even then i doubt they are making what the top motocross guys or any amount that is enough to retire when their prime is over. Why is Fuji still riding i wonder? Andrews dad is very wealthy and is putting ridiculous money into making Andrew as good as he is. That is great his dad is doing all of this for his child and any parent would if they could but it is in the long run hurting trials with people doing this. Look at it this way, your a young 15 year old kid or 16 same as Andrew, and you see he quit school goes to Europe does all this extra stuff that you can't do to get better. Are you going to want to even ride or compete or even try to compete against someone like that when you have to get a job at 16 or have to think about college and a career? No you won't and you will quit because why ride when there is nothing in the sport and there is this kid the same age as me that has a huge advantage. Or think of it as a parent who never rode or had a background in trials, so your kid wants to ride and is the same age as someone like this. Your an average person that wants to do best for your kid but see it is almost not worth it when there is no reason to ride when it is a money game. What keeps the money out of trials is when all the wealthy are just doing a money war basically and creates less riders which then makes companies not want to invest a sport with very little riders. 

 

 

When it all comes down to at the end of the trial is who is the best rider you will say which i understand. At lower levels it is much easier to compete with the people who have the newest bike and best equipment. But when you get up to the pro class and even expert in nationals or the world pro, it is all about who has the most money to throw at the sport to practice enough and get the best people to train you. Getting 4 new bikes a years and traveling to have the best in the world to train you is pretty tough to compete with when you have say one night a week and the weekends to practice on even one new bike a year. Thats why it takes money to ride trials in the top level.Money is time. The more money you have the more time you can spend. its a rich persons hobby and always will be. 

 

I love trials as much as anyone and am not trying to put it down but am trying to give a view of trials that many have never saw or thought of before.

[michael_t]

Having somebody investing heavily to raise the bar can't be all bad IMO. It may not seem fair but who said life is fair? If you take a look at just about any Olympic sport you see the same thing there will always be rich kids that get flown all over the world to excel at their sport and there will also be people who struggle to make it on their own. Most sports pour there funding into the top 1 or 2 athletes does this mean that everyone else gives up and goes home? If it does they are obviously not doing it for the pure fun of it and if that is the case they most likely won't do well anyways. pouring money into the sport doesn't guarantee a win you still have to work damn hard for it, doesn't matter who you are.

Who knows maybe he is wealthy enough ns realizes he would do much better if he had a team mate to push him who would he pick? What if with all this support he does raise up to the Toni, Raga level and it drives a whole new excitement in the USA for the sport... you just never know where things can go but as I said at the top I really can't see investing in the sport (even if it is focused on a single person) being a bad thing.

Just my .02

Edited April 23, 2015 by michael_t

[michael_t]

I think it is also worth pointing out that 4 bikes in a year (assuming they are selling them when they are done with them) isn't huge money compared to people who buy their kids cars when they turn 16 (not always cheap ones either). Lots of people let their kids travel for a year just to "find themselves"... so I guess it is all relative.

[biffsgasgas]

I don't agree that it's a rich persons sport. I know a lot of riders who spent a ton of money in the sport and get frustrated that they don't get what precieve as value.

I am not going to say that Andrew doesn't have opprotunity but I will say that a parent who tells their kid that they can't ride if they don't do their school work is doing the right thing. That has knocked Andrew out of season trophy contention. It effected Andrew and made him want more.

If I had a business which specalized in international integration and wanted to take part in a sport which requires international participation why wouldn't I sponsor or fund my child. For Aires I think this is a win win. What if Aires was the international sport participation coordinator for those competing? What if Aires was the go-to company for the manufacturer who wants to expand their export base? I am in no way paid or sponsored my them but at a high level it just makes good business sense. TRW did this as well you know.

--Biff

[lineaway]

 

I don't think you quite understand what i said. Yeah Pat had a rough time moving to pro his first year i understand that but did Pat spend months upon months in Europe to jump up to the front of pro? no he didn't. also back when Pat first started to ride pro there were many many more riders in the class which is why his fist year was tough on him. After that first year of Pat in pro that is when he stepped up his riding and became national champion. Yes Pat had his time in Europe but it was a lot of donations that got him over there to compete at the world championship, not to practice with the best in the world for months. Pat had many other things he did as well as improved his riding. Pat did ride many many hours to learn where he is now and same with all the pros for that matter.  

 

Now back to present, there are only 6 riders in the pro class. Lets take Alex for example since this is his first year riding pro as same for Andrew. Alex was just as skilled as Andrew was last year but Andrew was riding a 125 last year at the nationals so definitely give Andrew the edge. Now if Alex would of had the same opportunity as Andrew to spend all of that time riding with team SPEA and other Europeans, I would almost guarantee he would be just as good as where Andrew is today. I bet Bryan and Logan would be right up there to riding even better than they are now in the pro class if they had the chance to give up school and work to go ride trials full time.

 

Basically what i am saying is money talks. Thats the reason trials will never be like motocross is because trials is a rich persons hobby. 

 

 

  Ha! you are very wrong.

  Well if you want to go to Europe and really compete before your time, yes you need to have some real funding. Otherwise state side it is a very modest investment. I was 15 when I rode my first national. Money had nothing to do with trials then. Very easy sport to do well in if you have talent and time. Bottom line there has never been no money in trials! Wow!

 I met Andrews parents at the World round in Tennessee, and they are just genuinely good people. Andrew deserves anything he earns as he is a good kid. I drove Mrs, Putt to the sections Saturday in Texas ( She screamed just a little) and when I scored Sunday, Mr. Putt was minding for another rider (Stan`s grand daughter) and was the most polite person out there! For Andrew to get to go to Europe is just Awesome!    

Edited April 25, 2015 by lineaway

[shercosteve]

Dear Mr Joe 300,

 

I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish with your rant about Andrew Putt and his influence on Moto Trials today,  First off none of us have ever entered the sport of trials for the money, it's all about passion and self challenge. Second to be competitive at the sport you don't need new bikes to win and or new gear.....and for the record the top americans do earn a salary to ride...might not be much but they do.

 

Ive been lucky enough to be around and ride with most all of the past and current pro riders, and you know what they all have in common ...passion .... you tool ....it's not and will never be about the money, either in the sections or in the pits....on the motorcycle we are equal.... doesn't matter how much money or how good a rider you are...it's about the sport and friendship, which somewhere you've never learned that lesson.

 

Sure.... Andrew has spent time riding and training in Spain....for the record ...days....not months .... why because he can.... and his parents are passionate about our sport....Andrew isnt the first american to do so....What about Berine ?  Pat....Roper?   Also who do you think the title sponsor of the national series is Aires?  Who's company handing out the large checks to all the pro riders after each of  the national events ? Aires...who's supplying transportation for the TDN riders while in europe...Aires... Wise up pal what our sport needs to grow is big business ...to get exposure...sponsors...

 

I've had the chance to be around Andrew since he rode his first local event, on that day I knew he'd be at the champion level someday because he has a gift, which 95% of us dont have, and he is driven to be the best, The way I see it for up and coming riders regardless of background ...Andrew sets the bar for all riders to have a goal to try beat him.  .....The look I see in Andrews eyes is the same look I saw in another kids eyes when he was 13....his name is Pat.

 

I've been in trials for over 20 years now, and I am as passionate today as when I started, so for all of those riders ...or wanta be forum riders...quit complaining ....get out and ride the only one to blame is yourself if you aren't winning.....or maybe your losing to a  Putt !

 

SB

[kramit]

I don't agree that it's a rich persons sport. I know a lot of riders who spent a ton of money in the sport and get frustrated that they don't get what precieve as value.

I am not going to say that Andrew doesn't have opprotunity but I will say that a parent who tells their kid that they can't ride if they don't do their school work is doing the right thing. That has knocked Andrew out of season trophy contention. It effected Andrew and made him want more.

If I had a business which specalized in international integration and wanted to take part in a sport which requires international participation why wouldn't I sponsor or fund my child. For Aires I think this is a win win. What if Aires was the international sport participation coordinator for those competing? What if Aires was the go-to company for the manufacturer who wants to expand their export base? I am in no way paid or sponsored my them but at a high level it just makes good business sense. TRW did this as well you know.

--Biff

Az National last weekend was an eye opener for me.  I checked at our National here in CA a couple years ago and this was my first National since.   Andrew P. has come out of nowhere in 2 years and all excuses aside, this young man has put in some hard work.  At 16, he is clearly on his way to the top and in my opinion, he is just short of it here in the US anyway.  I wish him and his family all the best in their quest for a position at the top.

[biffsgasgas]

Az National last weekend was an eye opener for me.  I checked at our National here in CA a couple years ago and this was my first National since.   Andrew P. has come out of nowhere in 2 years and all excuses aside, this young man has put in some hard work.  At 16, he is clearly on his way to the top and in my opinion, he is just short of it here in the US anyway.  I wish him and his family all the best in their quest for a position at the top.

Four or five years ago in Indiana we so called "Experts" were warming up for our first event of the year. We were all green in the season but were trying to show off to each other based on what we had done for the winter. Along comes this pre-teenager on this lil gasgas 125. He did his best to keep up but i think he rode only one or two events in the US. Since then i have ridden several events with Andrew and hung out with the family but i have always been encouraged about his drive and level headed-ness. 

 

That is one of several families that I have been gifted to be a part of in my Trials experience.  I can't count on one hand since my youth how many times it has happened but that's not the point. We are here to not only compete against ourselves but to build upon each other. I wouldn't suggest discounting anyone in the sport, amateur or professional, because they might surprise you some day. 

 

Not a direct reply to your post lineaway but to point out that we all have experienced something that you have an it's special for us. 

 

--Biff

Edited April 26, 2015 by biffsgasgas

[joe_300]

Dear Mr Joe 300,

 

I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish with your rant about Andrew Putt and his influence on Moto Trials today,  First off none of us have ever entered the sport of trials for the money, it's all about passion and self challenge. Second to be competitive at the sport you don't need new bikes to win and or new gear.....and for the record the top americans do earn a salary to ride...might not be much but they do.

 

Ive been lucky enough to be around and ride with most all of the past and current pro riders, and you know what they all have in common ...passion .... you tool ....it's not and will never be about the money, either in the sections or in the pits....on the motorcycle we are equal.... doesn't matter how much money or how good a rider you are...it's about the sport and friendship, which somewhere you've never learned that lesson.

 

Sure.... Andrew has spent time riding and training in Spain....for the record ...days....not months .... why because he can.... and his parents are passionate about our sport....Andrew isnt the first american to do so....What about Berine ?  Pat....Roper?   Also who do you think the title sponsor of the national series is Aires?  Who's company handing out the large checks to all the pro riders after each of  the national events ? Aires...who's supplying transportation for the TDN riders while in europe...Aires... Wise up pal what our sport needs to grow is big business ...to get exposure...sponsors...

 

I've had the chance to be around Andrew since he rode his first local event, on that day I knew he'd be at the champion level someday because he has a gift, which 95% of us dont have, and he is driven to be the best, The way I see it for up and coming riders regardless of background ...Andrew sets the bar for all riders to have a goal to try beat him.  .....The look I see in Andrews eyes is the same look I saw in another kids eyes when he was 13....his name is Pat.

 

I've been in trials for over 20 years now, and I am as passionate today as when I started, so for all of those riders ...or wanta be forum riders...quit complaining ....get out and ride the only one to blame is yourself if you aren't winning.....or maybe your losing to a  Putt !

 

SB

 

What I'm trying to accomplish is to have people realize that riding the expert and pro classes in the USA and to compete in the World Cup World Pro class in trials takes a ton of time to do which requires a lot of money. Its not as easy as the local beginner classes and senior classes that someone can win by riding only on the weekend or twice a month on a clapped out bike. Riding expert or pro requires a lot more time of practice and the better rider you become the more bike work is required. Bikes get destroyed riding these classes and not having a fresh bike every year at least is almost impossible to do. Believe this or not but when riding expert or pro if your not breaking parts ( money) or crashing then your not progressing, challenging yourself in certain ways or getting better which means your result will be not so good. The bike work alone is a part/full time job no matter what bike you ride. All brands require the same amount. You been riding for 20 years so I'm assuming you understand bike work is very time consuming. If not well, there is a lot more to it than chain lube, oil filter, tranny oil and replacing linkage once a year. 

 

Ill tell you what saying the Pros in Usa make a salary is the funniest thing i heard in awhile. If you think they make money your the real tool here not me. Considering i am pretty good friends with all the pros and practice with them more than most, they don't make money. They even all say that. If they break even they are happy and any positive is a good year. Basically they get free bikes, parts, entry fees and some but little travel expenses paid. Some get the check they received on the podium doubled. i don't call that a salary and to me a salary is enough to live on. Now Pat obvious makes a little more than that and gets more but still not a legit salary. Same for Cody, he wouldn't be riding this year if he didn't make enough money to make it worth it. 

 

I know how all the riders and trials community is. EVERYONE is friendly, its the best atmosphere of any event of any kind. I am not putting anyone down. Andrews parents are great people like everyone else at the trials events. Met his parents at Andrews first national. Actually helped him out with advice. Don't need to tell me about the trials community.

 

If you read Trial Enduro News (Good work from Shan and the others) you will see Andrew spent from around christmas to end of January riding in Europe in the end of 2014 to beginning 2015(Just for practice). In August 16, 2014 he went over to begin his month riding the European championship round, last round of the world championship and also the Trial Des Nation. Oh yeah then last year before the USA nationals started in 2014 he spent a month in Europe again to ride the european championship in Italy not sure if that was in there but i do know that happened. yeah it was much more than a few days in Europe and for Spain as you said it was at least a few weeks considering thats where the world championship and tdn was...  That wasn't my point how long he was there but since you wanted to say about that i made sure to point it out. my point was how he had the time which equals money to do this all this plus to ride with the best. Being in the top of classes does take a lot of money to compete.  

 

Aires as a business throwing money out to pay the pros is great. it is a good start but it needs to improve to more than pro class and hopefully it will in the future. I believe it will with some effort of course. The problem is if you looked at rider counts the past 10 years has been at a huge drop. The main reason i think this happened is of course the cost to go to nationals to ride an event to possibly get a trophy. There is no incentive for riders or families to put in an estimate of $500-$1000 on a good weekend(No travel issues or breaking bike up) plus a possible day or two off work for a trophy. Another problem is when the schedule for the nationals is not good for kids in school. Kids in college that pay thousands won't miss college for a trophy they need to pay hundreds for with cost to ride a national. Plus the ones in high school can be challenging at times. those are the future of the sport so probably should focus on them?

 

Riding the national series is in no way cheap as that one guy says. Singing up alone is $160 for the weekend without a minder and with one is $240 a weekend of course if signed up early. Traveling to them all depending on location of course also if your using a motorhome/camper or hotel is easily $600 to be comfortable and yeah could be cheaper I'm sure but i think this is a reasonable estimate. Then if they are back to back weekends and traveling across the country, plan on missing probably 2 days before the first weekend, the following week then two days to get home off work. Thats only for two weekends of riding. this year we have 10 rounds or 5 weekends of nationals. So if this is cheap to you, well awesome your probably one who doesn't go to all the events but i don't see this being cheap for most. yes the east and west regional series helps this but to ride expert and pro, it takes money to do the whole series for the national championship.

 

Aires does help with the TDN team but you need to remember, there are A TON of people that donate A LOT of money for the TDN team to travel and pay expenses. Aires wasn't always there to help so they got a van before Aires got them one. Its just easier they van is already lined up now. I think all the companies and people who donate to the TDN earn recognition not just Aires. 

 

Im not exactly sure about Bernie but i am told from one person (not sure if its true or not) but Bernie mainly stayed in a tent on his first trips to Europe to compete and had to borrow some clothes since being from SoCal he wasn't prepared for the weather. For Pat, most of his traveling was donated by awesome people in USA. Plus he had to come up with some to but lets just say he did have a comfortable budget but I'm sure it wasn't the greatest but he made it work and put in some wins at the world championship. Bryan also had a lot of donations plus he worked saving up his cash to fill in the rest of the expenses and he stayed at a lot of peoples places over there in-between events. Plus the FIM pays for a hotel for a few days, if a rider is more than like 3000 miles or something like this from home as explained to me. 

 

For the guy saying about the olympic athletes, in the USA over %60 of the Olympic athletes that represented USA in London 2012 were college students. Why so? Well because those athletes growing up that were good at there sport continued to do that sport but thought about the future so they went to college. With the NCAA and a ton of colleges, the athletes do not need to be #1 or even #101 to get a full ride through college. Thats why no one gives up in those olympic sports because its obviously the main goal is olympics but if those athletes got a full ride through college they would be more than happy I'm sure. With trials if your not #1-#5 and even saying #5 is iffy, then your not making any kind of money to be bragging about or retiring on anytime soon for all the time and effort that trials requires. 

 

 

As for me riding, I am in that expert national class level. I'm not that sandbagging support rider that needs to move up a class. I am not able to put in the time i need to win or have the result i would like to see in the expert class because i need to work pay bills like every other normal person. I do ride as much as i can (2-4 days a week depends). I am not able to always make it to the nationals but try to when i can to meet up seeing everyone. Trials has got me into a few injuries that require surgery so my effort is right there and many parts have been put in the grave yard so I'm just as passionate as anyone is. Oh yeah I'm a Wanta Be Forum rider to let me tell you.   I follow the World, European, USA, British and X trial championships more closely than most. Not just red line either i prefer to follow blue line riders or the bottom half of red line.  

[biffsgasgas]

i think my orginal point is being derailed here. thats common in a compeitive sport. i gotta go wash my bike after a long weekend of not being that cool.

congrats Andrew you have my attention. Pat and Norm keep raising the bar. As for the rest of us get out on a bike and appreciate what we have rather than point the obvious flaws in our sport.

see you all out there.

--Biff