Inevitable Consequence?

[dadof2]

Very sad to read of Browns and Casales injuries. If browns injury is correctly reported he is likely to be out for 3 months or more, then there is the time after that to try to rebuild his confidence. Fujigas missed much of last year and even Bou was not exempt from injury.

I feel the increased risk of injury is the inevitable consequence of ever lighter bikes, grippier tyres and more extreme sections. There is a trial on youtube (Germany I think) which shows riders riding across what looks like a concrete dam with a gap in it. No great skill required to ride across it but the penalty for wobbling off would be severe.

Clerks of the course need to reduce the severity of sections and reduce the number which are steep rock hopping on dry grippy rocks. More loose soil, slippery rivers and mud needed.

An increase in bike weight and reduction in tyre grip is unfortunately too much to hope for.

[eddie_lejeune]

sure the sections in Japan were hopeless, man made sections. typical sections i saw were ride over a huge rock, 20 feet of flat ground, up a small hill and then another huge rock. no flowing natural terrain at all.

each rider stops about 400 hundred times in a section and gets away with it or is it stop allowed again

scorpa in yamaha livery looks nice though.

[gasgas249uk]

And our sport at this level is going to continue to get less popular as a result.

No regulation has seen it develop itself beyond recognition.

[nigel dabster]

Very sad to read of Browns and Casales injuries. If browns injury is correctly reported he is likely to be out for 3 months or more, then there is the time after that to try to rebuild his confidence. Fujigas missed much of last year and even Bou was not exempt from injury.

I feel the increased risk of injury is the inevitable consequence of ever lighter bikes, grippier tyres and more extreme sections. There is a trial on youtube (Germany I think) which shows riders riding across what looks like a concrete dam with a gap in it. No great skill required to ride across it but the penalty for wobbling off would be severe.

Clerks of the course need to reduce the severity of sections and reduce the number which are steep rock hopping on dry grippy rocks. More loose soil, slippery rivers and mud needed.

An increase in bike weight and reduction in tyre grip is unfortunately too much to hope for.

Even when you make a sensible and valid point you trash it with your "lighter bike" crusade. You are a plonker.

[telecat]

Personally the problem is the consequences of not making a obstacle. Having said that Moto-X has a lot more injuries/deaths and that is still very popular. Chris likes the spectacular stuff but at times he wonders why they expect you to be "balls out" with a nasty drop or collision if it isn't right. We do need the spectacular but perhaps the CofC needs to be mindful of safety.

[timp]

This is where we have an issue. Spectators want spectacular, exciting stuff. Top riders like big steps which they can do easily. But for the rest of the riders it's daunting and possibly dangerous. So the FIM bring in no stop to try to make sections a bit better for all. But the organisers make sections too big and dangerous for no - stop and the problems continue.

There isn't any obvious cure!

[neils on wheels]

Very sad to read of Browns and Casales injuries. If browns injury is correctly reported he is likely to be out for 3 months or more, then there is the time after that to try to rebuild his confidence. Fujigas missed much of last year and even Bou was not exempt from injury.

I feel the increased risk of injury is the inevitable consequence of ever lighter bikes, grippier tyres and more extreme sections. There is a trial on youtube (Germany I think) which shows riders riding across what looks like a concrete dam with a gap in it. No great skill required to ride across it but the penalty for wobbling off would be severe.

Clerks of the course need to reduce the severity of sections and reduce the number which are steep rock hopping on dry grippy rocks. More loose soil, slippery rivers and mud needed.

An increase in bike weight and reduction in tyre grip is unfortunately too much to hope for.

 

 

I'd rather have a light bike land on me than a heavy one.

[steve_earle]

This is the nature of world level sections, Yes they could be made safer.

 

As for heavier bikes, it won't make a difference, late 80's/early 90's, bikes weighing over 85-90kg were being ridden both indoor and outdoor in dangerous sections at world level.

[dadof2]

Yes there has been dangerous sections in the past but they were much less frequent. Lightness of the bikes may not be a major factor but it is a factor, even if just because a lighter bike is more capable and this leads to harder obstacles.

Regarding spectacular sections, I get bored with them Bou and maybe one or two others have a clean or decent ride then the rest fail or barely attempt the hard bits. I would far rather watch the S3 championship riders in a tricky section where quite a lot ride it.

Back in my TY250R (maybe about 1989) days there was a section in a North Yorks trial that consisted of about a 3 foot step followed by a 4 ft + step with not quite a bikes length between them. All riders did same course and I was expert at the time and riding regularly but even so was well pleased to clean it. Even if you failed all you did was hop off the back of the bike with it stood on end, no real danger. About 10 years later I was no longer riding regularly and had started doing the easier course which had been introduced. Instead of doing the double step the easier course turned left out of the beck, up onto the steep bank and along a sheep trod about 6 ft above the beck. Along the sheep trod I caught a protruding rock on the left and side of the sump guard stalled the bike and toppled into the beck as I had nowhere to foot with my right leg. I went a right purler, fortunately getting only bruises and a damaged throttle. Several other easier course riders fell off the trod in the same manner. I would have much preferred to tackle the steps. I have come across similar at several trials including as recently as last year. The CoCs in attempting to let lower ability riders ride round obstacles had  actually exposed them to more danger. I know this is getting a bit away from WTC but CoCs probably need to set out sections with a bit more attention to what can happen if a rider fails.

As for Neils comment about having a bike fall on them, a few kgs will hardly matter, its which bit hits you that counts. Digressing slightly to MX. So long as you were wearing body armour getting run over by a two stoke was usually no big deal, it had plenty of ground clearance and a smooch rounded "flexible" expansion chamber to cushion the blow. Modern 4 strokes are a lot worse to be run over by, they are 10 to 15 kg heavier, have less ground clearance and irregular shaped narrow sumps with sharp protrusions. 

[nigel dabster]

sorry confused now, is it more weight equals more danger or not as youve said both above?

 

Also isnt it therefore the case lighter bikes equals safer sport?

 

Citing one anecdotal crash doesnt mean that coc's are exposing anyone to more danger whatsoever, except perhaps in this one exception.

However to actually help you what the coc or course setters shouldve done is to give the easier course riders the choice to do the steps OR trod with a wide gate.

(you dont mark out much do you?)

[suzuki250]

 The bikes need to be lighter, I won’t be happy until I’m filling my tyres with helium

[suzuki250]

Digressing slightly to MX. So long as you were wearing body armour getting run over by a two stoke was usually no big deal, it had plenty of ground clearance and a smooch rounded "flexible" expansion chamber to cushion the blow.

Are you for real!!!!!!

I’d be quite happy to run you over with my 2T mx bike if you want to give it a go?

[nigel dabster]

Are you for real!!!!!!

I’d be quite happy to run you over with my 2T mx bike if you want to give it a go?

I used to hate Suzukis, ive just changed my mind..................

[huski]

I wouldn't fancy getting run over by any motox bike ,either 2t or 4t.My 09 rmz 450 has greater ground clearance than my friends 77 rm370 and a smooth sump shield,the exhaust on both exits above the crank case.you have to go back a long way to find a low slung expansion chamber

[dadof2]

Being run over by any bike is not good however some are less bad than others. The low heavy 4 strokes of the 50s, 60s and early 70s used to inflict some pretty horrific injuries an anyone they ran over. The lighter 2 stokes of the 80s and 90s with bulbous expansion chambers often ran over fallen riders without inflicting injury. Your mates RMZ may have a smooth sump shield but without the expansion chamber to hold the rider down his body or part thereof is more likely to hit higher up at the front of the engine where it is narrow and the impact force will be concentrated on a small area. The front engine / frame area on most recent MX bikes is pretty aggressively shaped.

All other things being equal, being hit by a heavier bike is going to be worse than a light bike. However when it comes to trials the greater capability of a lighter trials bike means more hazardous obstacles are needed to take marks and hence when the rider fails the subsequent fall is likely to more severe.

#10. Whenever I have set out a trial or had a hand in it riders are generally very complementary of the sections. I do appreciate that CoCs have a difficult job these days because of the range of ability, 3 route sections being the norm rather than the single route that sections used too be. The example of the sheep trod I quoted is just one of the instances of this I have seen. I have seen similar situations occur at trials ranging from nationals right down to easy club trials.

When I started trials nearly all sections were in gullies, so even if you failed a big step you just jumped off the back or toppled to one side. A far higher % of the sections in some trials today are inclined to "perch" riders on top of obstacles with a big fall off the side if things go wrong. I have no qualms about riding a 4 ft step in a gulley, but if the section required me to go over slippery a 4 ft boulder with nowhere to foot I would not attempt it. Quite a few riders I know including trial winners take the same view.

Edited April 30, 2015 by dadof2