Ssdt 2015 Chat

[kmac]

Great news for Vertigo and well done to Dougie.

 

Also thanks to Andy and the SSDT team for all the coverage on both websites. Brilliant as usual. Cheers.

[cleanorbust]

What an absolutely stunningly brilliant picture. Says it all, no caption required.

[stickinthemud]

Have I missed it or has no one mentioned that Dabill lost only 9 on observation (33 on time) to Dougies 11 (8 on time).

I know that he could have gained some advantage hanging back but if some of that time was lost on one of the 3 swing bridges they crossed that day that's pretty bad luck. A friend of mine was at Fort Augustus when the bridge opened and held up several riders (don't know who) whilst a barge and half a dozen boats went through. They were prevented from riding over the lock gates I understand.

[nigel dabster]

ifs buts and maybes

[steveo]

Maybe Dibbs went for safety and took the heavier bike.

[bulltaco340]

ifs buts and maybes

Nevertheless, and according to the programme, the Monday route was 51 miles and riders were given as taking five and a half hours from leaving the start to arriving at the last sections (Lagnaha). The route was over forestry roads, good hill roads, a short section of a hill path and main roads.

 

Tuesdays route is given as 102 miles, twice that of Monday, and included some pretty wet moor runs as well as the possibility of hold-ups at the canal bridges.

Time from leaving the start to arriving at last section (Trotters Burn) is given as six hours 48 minutes.

 

Just sayin'.

[jrsunt]

They all have route cards with mileage and groups on so they know how long they've got. Just need to ride faster....

Dibs is probably the fastest rider there across ground, for whatever reason he was delayed without getting delay on his card, if he'd pulled the pin he could have made 30mins up

Edited May 11, 2015 by jrsunt

[dadof2]

Its amazing really given the light weight of the bike, fuel injection, electric water pump, non points ignition etc that the vertigo even got out of the car park.

Great result.

Anyone heard from dadof2 or copemech ?

Yes go on, have a good laugh. I am only too happy to see Doug win on a new lightweight bike, just as I am happy when Raga performs well on a GG. Remember the SSDT used to be somewhat longer in the days of heavy bikes with points ignition.

My argument against complex, lightweight bikes is based on their higher initial cost, lack of longevity and higher and more frequent repair costs in the hands of lesser riders. The real test of the Vertigo will be when it gets to 2, 3 or 4 years old. If its reliable and spares prices are reasonable depreciation will be acceptable. If they are unreliable with expensive parts residual values will  be low and new bike sales will be less as a result.

To illustrate the point I will refer to a slightly different sport. I attended a 2 day cycle event recently, a mix of on and off road. Most of the bikes in the top group had 27 gears (3 x 9). More than 50% of this top group had trouble with damaged or jammed gear change mechanisms, One retired and several were left stuck in a single gear or with only a few gears available. Despite the great number of gears (initially available) all riders still had to push or carry the bikes up the steeper off road hills. Had all the bikes been single speed, fixed gear they would have been far more reliable and cheaper with no overall detriment to the enjoyment of the event.

Edited May 11, 2015 by dadof2

[copemech]

Its amazing really given the light weight of the bike, fuel injection, electric water pump, non points ignition etc that the vertigo even got out of the car park.

Great result.

Anyone heard from dadof2 or copemech ?

Takes me a while to get my hand cranked generator going long enough to power up the windows 95 powered machine, but if anyone knows just how to test a bike for performance his initials would be DL.

I think the bikes look luverly, even if the basic motor does look as though it shares a Gasgas history, I hope they worked a few kinks out of it.

I often hope things work out, yet I have often been disappointed in terms of long term reliability. Seems only time will tell!

[nigel dabster]

Yes go on, have a good laugh. I am only too happy to see Doug win on a new lightweight bike, just as I am happy when Raga performs well on a GG. Remember the SSDT used to be somewhat longer in the days of heavy bikes with points ignition.

My argument against complex, lightweight bikes is based on their higher initial cost, lack of longevity and higher and more frequent repair costs in the hands of lesser riders. The real test of the Vertigo will be when it gets to 2, 3 or 4 years old. If its reliable and spares prices are reasonable depreciation will be acceptable. If they are unreliable with expensive parts residual values will  be low and new bike sales will be less as a result.

To illustrate the point I will refer to a slightly different sport. I attended a 2 day cycle event recently, a mix of on and off road. Most of the bikes in the top group had 27 gears (3 x 9). More than 50% of this top group had trouble with damaged or jammed gear change mechanisms, One retired and several were left stuck in a single gear or with only a few gears available. Despite the great number of gears (initially available) all riders still had to push or carry the bikes up the steeper off road hills. Had all the bikes been single speed, fixed gear they would have been far more reliable and cheaper with no overall detriment to the enjoyment of the event.

 

You still dont get it do you? No one is "having a laugh" they are deadly serious.

 

Do you think ford or merc or vw worry about 4 year old cars too much, cost of spares etc, I doubt it. So why you think a specialist manufacturer in a minority sport should when each year a new improved lighter version is available defeats me.

 

BTW have you ever ridden a fixed gear push bike down a hill?

Edited May 12, 2015 by nigel dabster

[dadof2]

Yes I have ridden both single gear fixed and free-wheel bikes down a hill. I meant to write single speed free wheel, not fixed gear as in no free wheel.

My dad had a fixed gear track bike, it had no brakes and was ultra light. Effortlessly fast on a flat road but sod all use for anything else. Designed and built with a very focussed single purpose in mind, a bit like modern trials bikes.

 

Nigel you write "you still don't get it do you"  I get it all to well. The simple facts are because there are insufficient regulations to constrain the development of lightweight very narrowly focussed bikes the sport is going down what is very likely a dead end road.

GasGas with its lightweight engine is pretty well up the creek

Ossa perhaps the most technically advanced bike with its EFI etc is far from a sales success

Jotagas another avant garde type design only sells in small numbers.

Trials bike sales as a whole are pretty well down - certainly not an unqualified success.

 

The reasonably successful manufacturers Mont, Sherco and Beta are selling relatively traditional bikes.

I wish DL and his backers every success but when the Vertigo was first announced it was clearly stated the aim was to win at the highest level, ie SSDT and WTC. A refined thoroughbred may be the best way to achieve this but that does not mean it will have the characteristics that make a good bike for lesser riders on a budget.

The monoshock TY250 was perhaps they best ever club level bike but it won very little apart from the Scott at a higher level.

 

I am happy to continue this light vs heavy debate but if others wish to do so please start a new topic rather than polluting the SSDT forum.

Edited May 12, 2015 by dadof2

[cleanorbust]

Quote:

 

"Do you think ford or merc or vw worry about 4 year old cars too much, cost of spares etc, I doubt it."

And therein lies the rub.

 

[1shy]

BTW have you ever ridden a fixed gear push bike down a hill?

 

I had that sussed at three years old Dabster, just pick your legs up and let her rip, took a little longer to get the stopping down though, my legs were going like a fiddlers elbow trying to match the speed of the peddles.

[copemech]

BTW have you ever ridden a fixed gear push bike down a hill?

 

I had that sussed at three years old Dabster, just pick your legs up and let her rip, took a little longer to get the stopping down though, my legs were going like a fiddlers elbow trying to match the speed of the peddles.

 

 

My peddles beat the hell out of me, till the point I learnt to lay the bike down to stop and avoid solid objects!

[copemech]

Owning a bike and riding it long term does require normal maintenance. Over and above that, I do not consider myself willing to trade off weight for ultimate performance, nor feel the need to flip bikes every year for the new model.

The more conventional bike does have its own solitude. Sherco, Beta and Mont! Proven performance and not over the edge!

I really like the looks of the Scorpa as well, I could do that!

I may work on stuff for a living, but the last thing I want to spent my quality time on is fixing or figuring out issues with broken bits of my bike! Thus, I will take the middle road still.