baldilocks Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Ty mono sumpguard was pretty poor in that it didnt stop either the flywheel case or clutch case being knocked out of alignment and was difficult to balance on as it wasn't flat. Best sumpguards currently i think are on the gas gas but even they can be bent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 Im sure the Vertigo team will take note of your ideas. I suspect that there will b e quite a few who are disappointed that the Vertigo will not be appearing at the Y and G superstars trial the week after the Penrith WTC. The reason given is that they need to get them back to the factory to prepare them for the next WTC. I know these are development bikes but surely a quick chassis check and grease and transmission oil analysis should be all that is needed. I have previously questioned the merit of EFI and the electric water pump (both of which place critical demands on alternator) but one thing I think the Vertigo really needs is a good wrap round sump guard as fitted to the TY mono yams and Honda RTLs. Not only does this type of guard provide better engine side protection, it improves ground clearance and side clearance particularly at the front lower engine side area. ..and ignore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted May 18, 2015 Report Share Posted May 18, 2015 A thick sump guard is pretty much guaranteed. Given the size of the Rubber bung between the guard and engine I think it will be well protected from underneath. Protecting the other bits could be problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Ty mono sumpguard was pretty poor in that it didnt stop either the flywheel case or clutch case being knocked out of alignment and was difficult to balance on as it wasn't flat. Best sumpguards currently i think are on the gas gas but even they can be bent. Agree to some extent as I (and plenty of others) holed the flywheel case on TYs but it was very thin, brittle magnesium. Unless its massive no sump guard can completely protect the sides of the engine but the older wrap around guards do a better job than any of the modern "flat" type. Balancing on sump now not allowed so that's not an issue. When I switched from riding Tys / TYZs to a GG (with wide flat sump guard) I found it caught rocks and the edges of ruts where my Yams did not, a definite disadvantage and mark looser at times. Tarres (who developed this model) and other WTC riders have / had a much more on the sump / on the back wheel riding style so no doubt the issues I found were not a problem for them. I note Chris Pearson's electric bike has a sump guard with some shaping at the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoot Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 I spent a couple of hours in Manel's exclusive company when we recovered him and his bike back to Fort William following his accident. He talked a great game and is a very serious about making this venture work. He's also showed me some of the plans he has for other models and types of bikes based around the same frame concept. I don't think it would be fair for me to say too much here as but I was impressed with his vision and he certainly has the financial means and company infrastructure to make it happen. The bikes being risen in Scotland were clearly prototypes and no where near the final target weight etc but they worked and finished a tough week. None were being thrown at the scenery like a clubman would do so its not a very fair comparison but they appeared well thought out and built. I truly wish him well, you couldn't find a nicer bloke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Might the unfortunate and very sad news from Gas Gas mean Adam Raga is looking for a different ride ? Edited May 20, 2015 by trialsrfun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 . Not only does this type of guard provide better engine side protection, it improves ground clearance and side clearance particularly at the front lower engine side area. On the TY Yam I managed to smash the engine cases both magnesium and pattern by hitting the sump guard After 10 betas I have never smashed one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guys Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 They plan on keeping the GasGas factory enduro team alive, so maybe there's hope for Adam too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 On the TY Yam I managed to smash the engine cases both magnesium and pattern by hitting the sump guard After 10 betas I have never smashed one. I guess the yam was developed for a different era (no stop) where the likely damage was likely to be caused by catching a rock or falling sideways onto one, whereas the Beta would be developed for the stop and land on the sump guard era. Perhaps best protection would be a Beta thickness pad inside a Yam type wrap round guard. We have quite a few Beta riders in this area, some oldies who had Yams and some youngsters who have only had recent bikes. In general the oldies found the Yams pretty tough but nearly all (possibly all) the oldies and younger riders have broken Beta water pump housings and in some instances the primary cases as well. I have welded up a couple of flywheel side crank cases where the rubber sump pad has punched the case up at the bottom where it joins the plastic outer case. I have also welded up some Yam crankcases where a derailed chain had ripped the top lug out of the gearbox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richierich Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 In respect to Vertigo pricing, I understand they will be aiming at the Repsol 4Rt retail price. Don't know which Vertigo model this will be though as it looks like they will have 2 to offer. Very happy to see a fresh company starting with a blank sheet and appearing to really push the boundaries of future development of the sport forward. Very brave and very well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin008 Posted May 30, 2015 Report Share Posted May 30, 2015 2 strokes are far simpler to manufacture, I can't see it being 4t prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) I don't think the cost of manufacture comes into it too much as I don't think the vertigo will be priced on a cost + basis . The owner is a shrewd businessman and I am as interested to know how he brings the machine to market as I am in the machine itself. Will he price it at the top end of the market simply because he isn't geared up (yet) for mass manufacture so he may want to limit the sales to ensure they can meet demand?, or with his background of fast and efficient mass manufacture, will he want to price it lower, sell a lot more and ramp up production to suit and dominate the market? Pretty interesting I think. Edited May 31, 2015 by atomant 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 In respect to Vertigo pricing, I understand they will be aiming at the Repsol 4Rt retail price. Don't know which Vertigo model this will be though as it looks like they will have 2 to offer. Very happy to see a fresh company starting with a blank sheet and appearing to really push the boundaries of future development of the sport forward. Very brave and very well done! "Understand"? So in south wales you know the price structure of a catalan product before its produced? How? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 "Understand"? So in south wales you know the price structure of a catalan product before its produced? How? Post of the week LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted May 31, 2015 Report Share Posted May 31, 2015 I love you eddie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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