podracer Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Hi, My bike ha developed noticeable play in the rear suspension... Took it to my # 1 suspension tuner ... And when looking to the source of this play... he found the SAME SPOT for other 2 2012 factory Evos has had the same problem with the same EXACT BUSHING !! ALL NEEDLE BEARINGS ,AND SHOCK UPPER AND LOWERS are intact.. ( my bike has less than 40 hours ) The Swingarm Bushings are good and so the bearings... All the PLAY seems to come from this RIGHT SIDE FRONT DOG BONE BUSHING... RED DOT #37 I called my Dealer on VT and ordered all the REAR BUSHINGS... Just in case... But guess what ?? The only bushings they DONT have in stock DUE TO HI DEMAND ... Is the Bushing that is giving me this Problem !!! Seems that the Bolt is not SIZED CORRECTLY to the exact ( INNER DIAMETER ) size of this BUSHING... The Bushing is UNIQUE AND LARGER IN SIZE ( INNER SIZE ) compared to the OTHER DOG BONE BUSHINGS !! WHY ?? :wall: Even the bolt that goes thru it is the same size bolt as the RIGHT SIDE DOGBONE... WHY BETA FITTED A LARGER ( INNER SIZE ) BUSHING TO THIS DOGBONE ?? WHY THE OTHER SIDE ( EXACT SAME DOGBONE DOES NOT GENERATE PLAY )) ??? AND THE BUSHING ON THE OTHER SIDE DOES FITS PERFECT WITH THE BOLT ??? HAVE YOU GUYS FOUND THIS PROBLEM BEFORE ?? WAS THIS AN ISSUE ON 2011 AND 2012 300 EVOS ??? ((((( is the # 37 in the Diagram attached !! )))) Edited May 15, 2015 by podracer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Grease it up and put it back together till the part comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podracer Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Grease it up and put it back together till the part comes in. well... already did that... We all buy parts... I agree... thanks a lot ! Anyway, the question is ? why that specific bushing dos not MATCH the exact size of the BOLT ?? Like all the other parts in the same linkage ? Must fits SNUG like they are supposed to be... Is not a worn out BUSHING... SEEMS TO ME A INCORRECT INNER DIAMETER BUSHING WHICH NOT MATCHES THE BOLT DIAMETER !! Really, I expect better advice ... or at least a similar problem or did someone found the same problem of the same PART ? If anyone is in the process of greasing their linkages bushings.. I ask to PLEASE pay Attention to this SPECIFIC BUSHING on their 2011 or 2012 Evo to see if they find the same issue... REMEMBER IS THE # 37 ON THE DIAGRAM ... AND IS THE LEFT DOGBONE WHILE SITING ON THE BIKE.... Thanks a lot Edited May 15, 2015 by podracer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 That is the same bushing as the other side. I would ask the previous owner. Was the bearing dry? More likely it was run loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goudrons Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) I replaced the dog bone bushes, bearing and seals but I checked the bearing sizes first on the Beta parts list. I didn't buy Beta's bearing or seals, but bought some quality ones as I didn't know the origins of Beta's ones, I only got the bushes from Beta. It's true, one end (frame I think) on the dogbone has smaller inner diameter bushes than the other end as the shanks of the bolts aren't the same diameter. There's 4 part numbers for one dogbone as all four bushes are different. Two short ones, each with a different Inner Diameter. Two longer ones, each with a different Inner Diameter. So one long and one short with the smaller ID at the front. And One long and one short with a larger ID and the rear. After all the messing getting the bearings in and out, (they need to fit perfectly centre with a gap each end to fit the seal) and the feckin' bushes in the right way around, I wished I'd just bought the complete dogbones for an extra few quid! Pack them with Marine grade grease, it doesn't wash out as easily and make sure the seals are fitted the right way. I've still some play in the swinging arm, up and down, but I can't for the life of me find it. It seems the bottom of the shock swings a tiny amount, back and forth, as I move the swinging arm up and down, yet there's no detectable play anywhere! Edited May 15, 2015 by goudrons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technowaldo Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 It looks like.you have the wrong top hat. Bush the ones that bolt to the frame have a smaller diameter bolt than the ones that connect to the linkage.looks like somebodys got them mixed up in the past 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podracer Posted May 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 (edited) Thanks a LOT for those really helpfull answers.... - Previous owner used the bike a handfull of times... and never touched the linkage...and or did anything other than mix the gas and oil and clean the air filter.... - So, the only failure seems to be straight from BETA or the Dealer who assembled the bike when it arrived from Italy into USA... Because when it was shipped to Vnzla, they only take off both wheels, handlebar, plastics and fork. They dont mess with the swingarm... Im 100% sure since ive brought at least 20 bikes in the last 20 years with the same Cargo Company from USA.... So it has to be a BETA error... mismatched bolt and bushes on the wrong end or the other way arround... Thats my only guess... Could I be right on this ? Or even worse... a Defect on the welding spot of the frame ( ALIGNMENT ) where it connects to the Dogbones... and thats the reason both front bushes and bolts are different in diameter ?? to allow a misaligned linkage assy to connect to the frame via dogbones ?? :stupid: And develop excesive play very soon ? Or thats just me taking my :crying: too far ??? BTW has to be a LOGICAL Reason why ONLY the #37 Bushing is OUT OF STOCK in USA.... right ?? Again, its just me and too much :crying: .. I just want to get rid of this confusion and have a BIKE with ZERO Linkage PLAY as they are designed and supposed to be ,just as all other MX bikes Ive had in the Past... Why GOUDRONS still had some PLAY in his swingarm even after replacing everything ?? Well.... Im a perfectionist when it comes to Bikes setting (suspension ) I insist... It has to be something WRONG with this DESIGN On the Linkage (DOGBONES CONNECTION TO FRAME ) of the Evo Bikes... More advice highly appreciated...opinions,... please correct me if Im wrong. Thanks :thumbup: Edited May 15, 2015 by podracer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulltilt Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Find a good machinist, and have him make this for you. I had this on my Gas Gas and Sherco, but the machinist has moved. So I'm looking for a new machinist to make this for my Beta. It makes it easy to grease after every ride! Top picture and second, left side, 96 Gaser, right side; original Sherco and 3rd pic is Sherco installed. As you can see, I beat the Gas Gas ones until I destroyed the links themselves (rusty ones in picture) I seem to recall someone on the internet selling these also for a lot of money, but can't remember where. Watch the clearances on the front grease fittings. They can be hard to get at if you don't put them in the right spot. Good luck! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technowaldo Posted May 15, 2015 Report Share Posted May 15, 2015 Just order a pair of bushes with the smaller bolt siize hole and it will be fine. Good luck with the zero play linkage by the way as betas have lift on the back suspension from new lm on my third one and id say they are the best of a bad lot but not a patch on any of the jap stuff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podracer Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 wowwww FULLTILT !!! That is plain AMAZING !!!! :bouncy: :thumbup: :thumbup: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 It`s amazing that it took 4 years to check the linkage bearings. All bikes should be disassembled and lubed when new. I would order the part from Beta UK. American Beta is pretty new for an importer, and just because they do not have it has nothing to do with sales numbers. I applaud your view on zero play, but that means a lot of maintenance on a trials bike or a proper fix like fulltilt did. Funny the older bikes actually had more zerks and the newer models none. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fulltilt Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Be sure to have the machinist use a good quality bushing material, my first set weren't hard enough and didn't last as long as I'd like. The inner bushings are the standard bushings and the bearing replacements were made to fit them. Alternatively, I also buy the needle bearings from a bearing supplier, Eastern Bearings here in New England, for about half what Gas Gas and Sherco want. I have to replace them in my Beta very soon, so I'll buy a set from the dealer, write down all the numbers and see what I can find elsewhere. Unfortunately, the inner bushings and seals are bike specific and I've never found cheap replacements. I like to keep a spare pair of dog-bones greased up and ready to go so when I'm in a hurry, I just swap them out and clean and grease the other set in my leisure time. Until I get new grease-able ones anyhow. If you don't have a spare pair of bolts that bolt the front of the dog-bones to the frame I suggest you invest in them. They're great bolts because they fit in the frame and I don't need two wrenches like the Gas Gas and Sherco I had, but I doubt you'll get them at the local hardware store if you break one. I have a 2012 EVO 300 and have had them all apart to clean and grease and didn't notice any odd sizes on the bushings. They looked to be identical sizes on left and right, bigger in the back, smaller in the front. I'll post the bearing numbers as soon as I get them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podracer Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Update , Found out that the NEEDLE BEARING # 46 was the main source of the play... upon inspection found some of the needles missing and the seal was broken letting lots of Dirt inside.... So, Im gonna order it asap.... Any f you have the CODE for search this bearing by its SIZE ?? Ill try to search it at the Bearing Shops before placing it for Order... Thanks in Advance :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goudrons Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) The Beta parts catalogue is pretty good in regards to actually stating bearing and seal sizes. 46 is part number 007330390000 15x21x12 Roller cage and I believe there are two needed. The two seals (52) are 15x21x3 http://www.betamotor.com/system/attachments/0000/5683/Evo_2T_125_200_250_290_300factory_2011_rev08.pdf Edited May 21, 2015 by goudrons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
podracer Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Thanks Goudrons ! :thumbup: Later Im going with those specs to a couple of Bearings shops and try to find them... Before spending more $$$$ ordering them on the web... shipping...taxes.. I appreciate your detailed info :thumbup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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