nigel dabster Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Is it the rules that are farcical or the misapplication of the rules by observers who have been pressured by abuse from riders and minders? Having witnessed unpleasant arguments at WTC and BTC perhaps there is a case for an observers mark being kept secret until the rider completes the lap. Speaking as both a rider and observer, the observer is very rarely wrong, riders frequently are. I have had discussions regarding marking with some riders recently (Centre level), prior to or after the event and not related to any specific incident and it was absolutely clear some do not know and have never read the rules. Again your comment shows a lack of knowledge. Since the outset the rules have not been enforced anything like no stop, even to the extent of the explanatory change of rules video of ferrer showed him pretty much stopping. Since then the rules have relaxed much further so its near enough stopping for half a second is ok. When there is a grey area so vast as this arguments over inconsistences will naturally happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 At the last US national I checked we were told in the observer's meeting to not be too strict about the rules. One of the observers asked, "So what rules do you want us to ignore? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAD1 Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Ha... Thats madness Dan.If anyone has an ounce of uncertainty about how ridiculous the rules are and how they are not being even slightly enforced watch the You Tube video of Toni Bou at Penrith last year on (I think) section 7. He was stationary for circa 4-5 seconds, then later in same section went backwards with his foot down and got given a 1.Yet at the same trial a sterling (best ride of the whole lap) ride by Grattarola on another section (possibly section 3 - the section where everyone sits on the grass bank) where he had a single dab he was given a 5.And people wonder why these guys don't want to ride WTC - often at their own expense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 It's why I and many others won't check a world round. If you hand me a rule book I read it and check accordingly. Usually not popular. A couple, well many, years ago my buddies and I were checking a national and were accused of favoring local riders. When the rider in question's parental unit went to complain to the Clerk of the Course his response was simply, "Them?" the local guys just laughed when they heard. Apparently our reputations for checking exactly to the rules precede us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 The last world round I checked was in 99 in Watkins Glenn. It was no stop and the last portion was a huge rock ledge at the top of the hill. I had minders throwing kickers in when my back was turned or so they thought. Most got a point just in the setup and it was really hard. I only had two cleans. I had fived someone because of their minder repeatedly entering the section to add kickers so I fived the rider and said get out of here. There was a big stink and in the end the FIM sat me down to discuss the issue. They also accused me of being too tough but the week before as we walked around with the FIM they were joking about how easy our trial was. In the end the FIM took the five away and gave the rider a clean even though he did not ride the section. They said that its because i removed the kicker after it was placed there... by the minder. I will never check another world round. I observed the rule and it wasn't upheld by the governing body. Now i just spectate and make noise. Its a better fit for me. --Biff 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 When I've been CotC for local events and as NETA prez and vice prez when a dispute arose I'd talk to the checker. If they understood the rule and were certain of what they saw, end of discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Exactly what should happen . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) As I've said before the best way to get rid of a bad rule is to enforce it exactly as written. Lax enforcement just perpetuates and accumulates bad rules. Dan i think in some ways this has been happening since the re introduction of no stop. But its not so much the checkers and the riders its the organisers. Look at the footage from Japan of artificial obstacles joined up by metres of flat grass or even tarmac in places. If we are really saying that those are the best no stop sections they can come up with then that venue cannot be included in a no stop WTC. IF ? The FIM seriously want no stop trials they have to start by reviewing the venues used. Then they need to appoint someone to review the sections who understands the concept on the day before the event or weeks earlier. 10 large concrete blocks on tarmac doesn't make a no stop trial. No stop can only be applied when the venues and actual sections are designed for those rules. It cant work if we use stop permitted sections and just add some flat grass here and there Edited June 6, 2015 by baldilocks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timp Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 IF ? The FIM seriously want no stop trials they have to start by reviewing the venues used. Then they need to appoint someone to review the sections who understands the concept on the day before the event or weeks earlier. I think you have just found yourself a new job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Ha ha if the pays ok i could live with the travel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 In Czech and Slovak national trials the no stop FIM rule does not apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 When I've been CotC for local events and as NETA prez and vice prez when a dispute arose I'd talk to the checker. If they understood the rule and were certain of what they saw, endkeine Sorge of discussion. i didnt have that support. would have liked it. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 In Czech and Slovak national trials the no stop FIM rule does not apply. That doesn't matter, if an organiser applies to run a round of the No Stop World Trials Championship then a no stop trial is required. From what i have seen the sections looked much better than Japan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Again your comment shows a lack of knowledge. Since the outset the rules have not been enforced anything like no stop, even to the extent of the explanatory change of rules video of ferrer showed him pretty much stopping. Since then the rules have relaxed much further so its near enough stopping for half a second is ok. When there is a grey area so vast as this arguments over inconsistences will naturally happen. Exactly what knowledge do I lack? Quite frankly WTC has become such a hotbed of bending the rules it is pretty near pointless. Everyone knows Bou is the best, stop or no stop, so why keep wasting money and upsetting observers trailing this so called world championship round a few countries with hardly anyone watching. I gave Nord View a miss last year so was thinking of going both Sat and Sun this year but now won't be bothering. I would rather watch the locals at a Lancs evening trial, the foods cheaper as well. Give me the smell of Castrol R at the Blencarn classic scramble anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biffsgasgas Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Exactly what knowledge do I lack? Ooo Oooo I know! How to not conflict with Nigel Dabster... What do I win? Ok back on topic. Czech Republic was successful in the end for not hurting many and keeping the status quo. Moving on to the next world round. --Biff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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